T87 Swaps

[kidturbo]

Sounds better than my idea of a mig wire, and some heatshrink..

I'll send ya good one to play with tomorrow. With camera zoom I can see some sort of wire remnants stuck on these pins. But it's sure not solder..

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[Cougar281]

Sounds better than my idea of a mig wire, and some heatshrink..

I'll send ya good one to play with tomorrow. With camera zoom I can see some sort of wire remnants stuck on these pins. But it's sure not solder..

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Cool... You know if I can get it made, I'm gonna plug my T87 up to my truck and 'see what happens'

 

[kidturbo]

80 Pins, the old fashion way, with Buffalo Bill skinning job.. lol

P.S. 100% two piece design with header plate and pins slips into the frame..

 

[2004LB7]

If they are indeed aluminum then they won't solder with any traditional flux. Maybe with zinc chloride. Or whatever good aluminum flux you can get for that purpose. I've successfully soldered some aluminum with synthetic motor oil over the aluminum to protect it from the air and then putting a little bit of solder down and scraping the aluminum with the soldering iron until the solder starts to stick. But I have a small bottle of aluminum specific flux that I use for that rare time that works better then anything else I've tried.

 

[2004LB7]

I also have a battery spot welder if you have any to spare for experiments

 

[kidturbo]

Pins are to strong to be pure aluminum. Yet have a weak magnet attraction. Some composition, copper nickle maybe.

Ok part 1 done, where do all these wires go now? LoL

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[kidturbo]

Once ya get em out in the wind, grind on em a bit, solder will stick..

Look brass under the tin..

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[Ron Nielson]

Total side question for anyone watching... Does anyone happen to have or have access to the pinout for the T01 TCM (Same connector as the T87/T87A/T93, but I suspect not pin compatible)? It's found on, at least, the 2019 Malibu with the 1.5T and CVT Trans. Also, the pinout for a 2016 Silverado with the Duramax and 6-speed Allison would be beneficial for this endeavor.

See post #204 https://www.duramaxforum.com/threads/anyone-need-wiring-diagrams-for-free.1011426/page-11. Google Images often has pinouts for lots of different models.

 

[kidturbo]

Thanks for the link Ron.

While I didn't find exact pinouts for both yet, I did stumble onto a thread where ATS is saying you have to change the turbine and output shaft speed sensors with their conversion kit. So guess I'll need to do a little more experimenting with this T87 unit and my old pulse signal generators. I know those work in place of the A50 sensors because have tested live with them. So be interesting to see what's actually different here on the bench.

Tough call on best approach if differnt sensor are a must. I have that ADC chip onboard my modules, and can likely listen to, and then reproduce correct signal to make the T87 happy. But it puts a lot more responsibility on my hardware, vs crawling under the truck to swap a couple pickups...

 

[kidturbo]

Did some reading, and stumbled across the thread you referenced @Cougar281. Looks like BT spotted that sensor difference back in 2017. However he never mentioned possible options or workarounds. It's not real hard to convert analog sine wave to 0-5v square wave. Found some simple circuit examples of how to do it without an IC. And some ready made board options like these.

VR To Hall Sensor Converter - SIRHC Labs

The VR to Hall Sensor Converter provides a simple and cost-effective solution to connect a variable reluctance (VR) sensor to a hall effect sensor input on your ECU/ECM/PCM, speedometer, nitrous/boost/methanol controller, or any other device requiring a 0-5V pulsed speed or position signal...

sirhclabs.com

Cortex EBC Speed Sensor Adapter

Connecting magnetic/VR/inductive sensors and two-wire hall effect sensors to the Cortex EBC will require the use of a speed sensor adapter. These adapters output a 0 – 12 V pulsed speed signal that matches the frequency of the signal produced by a magnetic/VR/inductive sensor or two-wire hall...

sirhclabs.com

Also found a decent pinout of the T87A attached. It's the gasser version, so will still try to find Allison version to compare. After some further reading, it seems we should probably verify difference between the Allison and all others OS versions. See where these could also be VIN coded to specific vehicle types. So I have an standard gasser 87A on the way, and would like to find one out of a Duramax to compare. Now looing for fresh bins from each version, along with the goodies map, because only then we can be certain what's diff.. If not, we might have to just plug one in and see how it responds...

 

[pl_silverado]

Let me know what else you need, i'll post it. 2009 A50/T14 & 2016 T87 Attached.

 

[pl_silverado]

Total side question for anyone watching... Does anyone happen to have or have access to the pinout for the T01 TCM (Same connector as the T87/T87A/T93, but I suspect not pin compatible)? It's found on, at least, the 2019 Malibu with the 1.5T and CVT Trans. Also, the pinout for a 2016 Silverado with the Duramax and 6-speed Allison would be beneficial for this endeavor.

Here's the ones for the Malibu, did not dig too deep into the differences but there was two different ones.

 

[Cougar281]

Awesome, thanks - that verified what I suspected. The T01 for the MRG transmission is not pin compatible with the T87/T87A. I'm fairly certain the M3E TCM is in fact a T87A since at a quick glance, it seems to mostly match the pinout for the 2016 Allison T87.

I've been searching for a way to read a raw BIN out of the T87, but haven't had any luck finding anything. I wouldn't mind re-programming the T87A with a 2017 Allison calibration using SPS2, but I don't know that it could be done on the bench. SPS2 'frowns' upon that, it seems. If I had an appropriate BCM and/or ECM, it MIGHT work. If I knew it would work, I wouldn't be totally opposed to spending the $45 for a VIN license to do it.

 

[pl_silverado]

Awesome, thanks - that verified what I suspected. The T01 for the MRG transmission is not pin compatible with the T87/T87A. I'm fairly certain the M3E TCM is in fact a T87A since at a quick glance, it seems to mostly match the pinout for the 2016 Allison T87.

I've been searching for a way to read a raw BIN out of the T87, but haven't had any luck finding anything. I wouldn't mind re-programming the T87A with a 2017 Allison calibration using SPS2, but I don't know that it could be done on the bench. SPS2 'frowns' upon that, it seems. If I had an appropriate BCM and/or ECM, it MIGHT work. If I knew it would work, I wouldn't be totally opposed to spending the $45 for a VIN license to do it.

Honestly I don't know much about the T87's, but there's a whole hp tuners thread on it you might want to read thru before attempting anything.

T87A controller versus T87

Found in my testing is that I can run the earlier T87 in place of the T87A. This is great since the T87a is encrypted. I have been running a T87 from a 2015 silverado OS on a 2017 silverado ECU...This is in hot rod swap.

forum.hptuners.com

Also, have a stock t87 efi file, if anyone needs it.

 

[Cougar281]

Honestly I don't know much about the T87's, but there's a whole hp tuners thread on it you might want to read thru before attempting anything.

T87A controller versus T87

Found in my testing is that I can run the earlier T87 in place of the T87A. This is great since the T87a is encrypted. I have been running a T87 from a 2015 silverado OS on a 2017 silverado ECU...This is in hot rod swap.

forum.hptuners.com

Also, have a stock t87 efi file, if anyone needs it.

Yes, quite familiar with the differences. The T87's came in 2015.5 or so through 2016, then they introduced the T87A for 2017 in most cases... The calibrations for the two are not compatible with each other, but the part number on the T87A I have crosses over to a TON of GM vehicles from 2017 to 2022, including the Silverados and Sierras with all engines and transmissions from 2017-2019.

 

[pl_silverado]

Yes, quite familiar with the differences. The T87's came in 2015.5 or so through 2016, then they introduced the T87A for 2017 in most cases... The calibrations for the two are not compatible with each other, but the part number on the T87A I have crosses over to a TON of GM vehicles from 2017 to 2022, including the Silverados and Sierras with all engines and transmissions from 2017-2019.

Supposedly someone on another forum has a bin of the t87a. I will see if he'll share it.

 

[gmduramax]

Yes, quite familiar with the differences. The T87's came in 2015.5 or so through 2016, then they introduced the T87A for 2017 in most cases... The calibrations for the two are not compatible with each other, but the part number on the T87A I have crosses over to a TON of GM vehicles from 2017 to 2022, including the Silverados and Sierras with all engines and transmissions from 2017-2019.

Okay I may be crazy. But I’m pretty sure I seen a 15.5 LML with an A50. I thought all 15.5-16 had a T87 and I went to cal flash without reading the tcm first and got a error on EFI live. Thought that was weird. Went to install the DSP5 pins into the ecm and looked at the tcm and it wasn’t a T87. I didn’t actually read or flash the tcm because I was in a rush.

 

[Cougar281]

Okay I may be crazy. But I’m pretty sure I seen a 15.5 LML with an A50. I thought all 15.5-16 had a T87 and I went to cal flash without reading the tcm first and got a error on EFI live. Thought that was weird. Went to install the DSP5 pins into the ecm and looked at the tcm and it wasn’t a T87. I didn’t actually read or flash the tcm because I was in a rush.

Early '15 should be a A50, late '15 should be a T87.

 

[juddski88]

Okay I may be crazy. But I’m pretty sure I seen a 15.5 LML with an A50. I thought all 15.5-16 had a T87 and I went to cal flash without reading the tcm first and got a error on EFI live. Thought that was weird. Went to install the DSP5 pins into the ecm and looked at the tcm and it wasn’t a T87. I didn’t actually read or flash the tcm because I was in a rush.

This is correct, they just built them with a50s until they ran out.

 

[kidturbo]

Supposedly someone on another forum has a bin of the t87a. I will see if he'll share it.

I'd also really like to compare with the bin I currently have. How many releases did they start with?

The 87A development traces back to at least the 2013 time period, which tells me the T87 started a good 2 years before, if production releases followed along similar timelines.

My rev starts -- Ver 1.01 Update for HWIO "Hardware Input/Output", which I had to Scribd the GM abbreviations list from handy PDF, link below. In 10/2013 it also lists -- Changed CpuType to SPC564A80_Rev2. And that looks like our main change between the 87 to 87A.

GM Abbreviation | PDF | Automation | Automatic Transmission

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