T87 Swaps

LBZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Jul 2, 2007
9,903
149
63
46
B.C.
If you can get them for a fair price, let's make a deal...
If I remember I’ll look around tomorrow. The one guy I know that has a few is flakey AF to get ahold of, probably why he has a bunch.

I need a new A pillar cover with speaker for my ‘03 and he has 2 so one day I’m just gonna show up at his place and go shopping.
 

pl_silverado

Active member
Jan 29, 2012
140
106
43
I don't know if the new part number has any upgraded hardware as a result of the chip shortage, but I put a new one in my main LMM as a precautionary measure and it sure seems to shift better. Shifts are crisp and quick, no tunes, just flashed with the latest cal from gm sps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kidturbo

2004LB7

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2010
6,957
2,136
113
Norcal
I don't know if the new part number has any upgraded hardware as a result of the chip shortage, but I put a new one in my main LMM as a precautionary measure and it sure seems to shift better. Shifts are crisp and quick, no tunes, just flashed with the latest cal from gm sps.
Could still be adapting
 

Cougar281

Well-known member
Sep 11, 2006
1,809
252
83
St Louis, MO
So you are suggesting I should add an Easter Egg in this code?? Every 50th key on cycle, if ya hit the Tow / Haul button twice, TCM goes into Relearn Mode...

Pops up a dash msg, Zoom Zoom, >
Lol.

Although along that line, I did think of a potential issue... Clearing adapts. At least on the bench, when trying to communicate with the T87 with the vehicle built as a 2006 LBZ, my tech2 nopes out of connecting to the T87. GDS2 would probably nope out of connecting because it wouldn't be able to find the rest of the vehicle (haven't tried it yet). If EFI Live or HPTuners can clear adapts in the T87/T87A, then that may be the only option when needed.

Edit: Turns out you can manually build the vehicle in GDS2 and it will communicate with the TCM on the bench.
 
Last edited:

2004LB7

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2010
6,957
2,136
113
Norcal
So you are suggesting I should add an Easter Egg in this code?? Every 50th key on cycle, if ya hit the Tow / Haul button twice, TCM goes into Relearn Mode...

Pops up a dash msg, Zoom Zoom, <<Your Truck Requires A Good Romping>> :ROFLMAO:
Something like that would be awesome. Maybe something like hold throttle to 100% while turning on the ignition, then hit T/H three times and it clears the adapts and puts it in fast learn
 

Cougar281

Well-known member
Sep 11, 2006
1,809
252
83
St Louis, MO
So totally off topic with regards to our conversation, but I just re-read your original post and have to ask - if you're going the route of making a T87/T87A work with an older LS ECM that originally had a T43 and a 6Lxx, why in the world would you go with an 8 speed? Just go to the T93 and 10 speed (unless you can make a T87A run a 10-speed). The 8-speed is the red-headed stepchild of GM. From most of what I've gathered, it's a piece of junk that WILL break, it's just a question of when. The 10-speed in my CT6 Sport, in my experience, is quite good - FAR better than even the 6-speed that was in my 2010 CTS.
 

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,363
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
So totally off topic with regards to our conversation, but I just re-read your original post and have to ask - if you're going the route of making a T87/T87A work with an older LS ECM that originally had a T43 and a 6Lxx, why in the world would you go with an 8 speed? Just go to the T93 and 10 speed (unless you can make a T87A run a 10-speed). The 8-speed is the red-headed stepchild of GM. From most of what I've gathered, it's a piece of junk that WILL break, it's just a question of when. The 10-speed in my CT6 Sport, in my experience, is quite good - FAR better than even the 6-speed that was in my 2010 CTS.
I think a 10spd is what they are actually running. What is the Ford / GM combination unit? Talked about using the 87A with PWM control, and not running the standard T87 for some reason. Is why I've been focused mating that setup .
 

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,363
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
@Cougar281 Can one still load a fresh bin into these newer 87A TCM's using older ofline GM tools? Or does it require an unlocking using online TIS account? Guessing HPT tool is how everyone is currently doing it.

While I have raw A bin, along with everything required to make that thing say uncle however ya wish, currently no matching hardware on hand to test against my MDI. After reading some FB posts, seems ATS customers are seeing some com issues. As much as I plan to make this deal plug-N-play, I'll happily write out or modify the parts the TCM pissy about in a custom bin, if that make the whole deal go smoother. Then we can work the bugs out in beta testing.

Besides just sending basic CANbus packets with stuff like RPM, torque values, and throttle position, GM also includes 1bit Validity Status related to these messages. So while the TCM looks for a torque value under ID 0x123 byte 2, it also looks at say bit 7 for a 1/0 to tell it that Torque # is valid or not. Which luckily they use 1 for valid, and 0 for invalid.. IE, no bit or byte present = data invalid..

Knowing where these switches are in the OE bin, one could make it ALWAYS accept the values received, rather than questioning every packet. Or even ignore data we don' want it to use. Basically write it out like a DTC, including the triggers for Limp Home..
 

Cougar281

Well-known member
Sep 11, 2006
1,809
252
83
St Louis, MO
@Cougar281 Can one still load a fresh bin into these newer 87A TCM's using older ofline GM tools? Or does it require an unlocking using online TIS account? Guessing HPT tool is how everyone is currently doing it.

While I have raw A bin, along with everything required to make that thing say uncle however ya wish, currently no matching hardware on hand to test against my MDI. After reading some FB posts, seems ATS customers are seeing some com issues. As much as I plan to make this deal plug-N-play, I'll happily write out or modify the parts the TCM pissy about in a custom bin, if that make the whole deal go smoother. Then we can work the bugs out in beta testing.

Besides just sending basic CANbus packets with stuff like RPM, torque values, and throttle position, GM also includes 1bit Validity Status related to these messages. So while the TCM looks for a torque value under ID 0x123 byte 2, it also looks at say bit 7 for a 1/0 to tell it that Torque # is valid or not. Which luckily they use 1 for valid, and 0 for invalid.. IE, no bit or byte present = data invalid..

Knowing where these switches are in the OE bin, one could make it ALWAYS accept the values received, rather than questioning every packet. Or even ignore data we don' want it to use. Basically write it out like a DTC, including the triggers for Limp Home..
I honestly have no idea... I have 'tools' (lol) and a T87 as well as a T87A (and a T01... I didn't know a T01 was a thing lol)...the only offline stuff I have or have played with is TIS2000, and that's WAAAAY too old to talk to a T87/T87A.... I'm more than happy to mess around with this T87A if someone can point me in the direction of an offline version of SPS that'll talk to it... Alternatively, I was just talking with someone who apparently has reverse engineered the various unlock methods and come up with his own that can be implemented using a Magicmotorsport Flex... The catch? That tool is about $1900...

You have a bin that you can do whatever you want with... Does the hardware have Class2 capability that could be enabled in the raw bin? Plug n play with gm calibrations would be great if it was reliable, but if custom calibrations ended up more reliable, in the end, that would be better...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: kidturbo

Cougar281

Well-known member
Sep 11, 2006
1,809
252
83
St Louis, MO
I'll check some unlocker options for ya then. I know ya can load the ECM a raw bin using a real MDI and some other tool, but I've never messed with it either..

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
I have a legit MDI2, so....

Side question... You mentioned 3d printing the TCM side of the connector... You happen to have and be willing to share the stl? What's the plan for the pins?
 
Last edited:

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,363
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
I got nothing towards the connector so far. Reason I'm looking for a junk T14. Need to send one off for my CAD buddies to scan and come up with a plan for pins. Unless someone here has a good scanner..

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
 

Cougar281

Well-known member
Sep 11, 2006
1,809
252
83
St Louis, MO
I got nothing towards the connector so far. Reason I'm looking for a junk T14. Need to send one off for my CAD buddies to scan and come up with a plan for pins. Unless someone here has a good scanner..

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
Gotcha... I'll have to go find my A40 bench harness connector and see if there are any markings that might lead to a part number for its mate... ATS obviously has something that isn't FDM 3D printed... one of the T87 connectors had numbers laser etched in it that lead me to all sorts of info, including what appeared to be its mate.
 

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,363
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
How many ya want. LoL. I might have cut a few outa some harnesses..
8e170511966619f93131f1c703d2b2e9.jpg
d6e5235f77929687c1cbaead512c911d.jpg


Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
 

Cougar281

Well-known member
Sep 11, 2006
1,809
252
83
St Louis, MO
Lol. I have the one on my truck, of course, but I have the one for my bench harness that is probably in a cabinet in my garage. The number on the connector below led me to some info for the T87's...
e5533aad052dcea98d3be240b1f5e02a.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: kidturbo

2004LB7

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2010
6,957
2,136
113
Norcal
PPE+PA-GF10
9d0a2e29f503daa580f0ca39ddcb606d.jpg


Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
That's just the mold markings for type of plastic used along with how much glass fiber used

PPE = Polyphenylene Ether
PA = polyamide or commonly called nylon
GF = glass fiber. 10% in this case
 
  • Like
Reactions: kidturbo