T87 Swaps

[Cougar281]

Ya made me do it lol. I went out to retrieve my bench harness connector, but it wasn't there... I have literally every one I've ever made except that one. I'll look at my truck tomorrow... That 'PPE+PA-GF10', based on a Google search, seems to be related to what it's made of... 'NORYL GTX GTX4610 PPE + PA GF10 Polyphenylene Oxid PPO Granules PPE Granules'

Edit: we're all posting at the same time lol.

 

[Cougar281]

34822-0013 Part Detail | TTI, Inc.

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www.tti.com

https://www.molex.com/en-us/products/part-detail/348220033

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Molex/34822-0013?qs=UCu20vuepasG9cu9AAJqPA%3D%3D

Nope, those aren't the A40/A50/T14 connector of the images are to be believed. Note the large terminal in the corner. That's kinda similar to the T87, but the T87 has large positive and negative terminals in opposing corners.

Edit: those numbers are from the connector I posted the image of, but the images in the links absolutely don't match the actual connector... Wonder if they just used some random similar stock image?

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/molex/0348220013/5874078

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832633197939.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt

It's odd... Some places show the right image for the number, some don't.

 

[kidturbo]

Broke out the brake clean and found another.

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[2004LB7]

EPC PKC 80 Way Female Connector R62004-001 R62004001

Our site has more Crank and Cam Signal Kits, Connectors, Terminals, and Professional Series ECU Extensions than ever before!

www.eficonnection.com

 

[kidturbo]

EPC PKC 80 Way Female Connector R62004-001 R62004001

Our site has more Crank and Cam Signal Kits, Connectors, Terminals, and Professional Series ECU Extensions than ever before!

www.eficonnection.com

Other related Allison Female options.
300243 80pos TCM Connector (R-61991-001-D)
300276
29542326

Now to find it's mate...

 

[pl_silverado]

Is there any reason this couldn't be make to work by replacing/repining the a50 connector on the harness with a t87 one? Re-pinning a plug is not a big deal, would alleviate the need for 3d printing something to match up.

 

[juddski88]

Is there any reason this couldn't be make to work by replacing/repining the a50 connector on the harness with a t87 one? Re-pinning a plug is not a big deal, would alleviate the need for 3d printing something to match up.

The pins are different style. Also, there are some slight circuit differences between the two.

 

[kidturbo]

After searching myself to sleep, looks to be Allison specific deal. Still being produced today for their Gen6 controls. But at least we have the OE manufacture, along with two other producers. The Pins are nothing special, which is helpful. So will Email PKC offices in EU this evening, and follow up with US offices tomorrow. Worst case, Alibaba again.... LOL

Did find interesting article about this new Allison Gen6 hardware, and CANbus messages. They are following GM's lead on handling data. Like everyone is suddenly looking to hack their TCM while ya driving down the road.

Gears Magazine - A Visit with Big Al - Allison 1000/2000 Product Changes

Allison transmissions are some of the toughest and most reliable transmissions produced worldwide. The Allison 1000 and 2000s are used by various manufacturers such as GM, International, Peterbilt, and Kenworth, to name a few. To say that the name builds confidence with its customers is an...

gearsmagazine.com

Some New J1939 DTC's for 2021.

• U1401 J1939 TSC1 Engine Message Impostor Detected
• U1402 J1939 TSC1 Compression Brake Message Impostor Detected
• U1403 J1939 TSC1 Exhaust Brake Message Impostor Detected

 

[Cougar281]

Interesting info... too bad there aren't 5th gen calibrations to replace the 4th gen TCMs. I wouldn't be shocked if they're 'pin compatible' like the T87/T87A/T93, but without proper calibrations....

I did some searching and couldn't find anything, then looked at ATS's unit, and looking closer, theirs is 3d printed (not sure how I feel about a FDM 3d printed part under the hood )... If ATS couldn't find one and had to 3d print it, then it probably doesn't exist.

 

[Cougar281]

Is there any reason this couldn't be make to work by replacing/repining the a50 connector on the harness with a t87 one? Re-pinning a plug is not a big deal, would alleviate the need for 3d printing something to match up.

It 'could' be done, but as Juddski said, the terminal are different, so you'd be cutting terminals off and crimping on new ones. Not for the faint of heart. Circuit differences, I'm not sure about, but probably could be overcome. But for any testing or experimentation, you wouldn't want to hack up the harness like that. YEARS ago, I build an adapter to allow an A40 to connect to my LLY/5 speed using a new A40 plug, terminals and two connectors that I de-soldered out of an old vortec PCM (IIRC).

 

[kidturbo]

It exists. It's just finding the shop in China that's holding the injection mold, and a few thousand spares in a box.

Alibaba, the Silk Road of automotive hardware. If we don't have it, we'll steal the design and produce it for ya... LOL.

My new fav document site, scribd.com is yielding some helpful drawings at least...



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[juddski88]

Is there any reason this couldn't be make to work by replacing/repining the a50 connector on the harness with a t87 one? Re-pinning a plug is not a big deal, would alleviate the need for 3d printing something to match up.

I forgot to mention that I was able to buy the t87 pigtail and connector, because I could not get the whole t87 style harness from GM at the time. Unsure if that is still the case. Harnesses 5+yrs old from any manufacturer are extremely hard to come by if at all these days.

Interesting info... too bad there aren't 5th gen calibrations to replace the 4th gen TCMs.

I did some searching and couldn't find anything, then looked at ATS's unit, and looking closer, theirs is 3d printed (not sure how I feel about a FDM 3d printed part under the hood )... If ATS couldn't find one and had to 3d print it, then it probably doesn't exist.

I searched part numbers and blueprints and wiring diagrams for a couple of weeks when I started this venture 2 years ago. Made calls to a few connector sources, and finally decided to just replace the pigtail and connector on the trans harness because I could get those. Then wire the few outlier circuits to a translator. This is essentially how ATS and CA Conversions do theirs, and the other supplier out of TX did his the "same way" as ATS, which has been a point of contention with them.

 

[kidturbo]

Best I can find is the connector drawing no. as listed by Allison. Found the whole schematic for the industrial TCM version, but can't locate this # AS07-405.

So if we can locate that drawing, 3D printing a mate that accepts a matching pin shouldn't be a big deal. Just in case China hasn't hacked one out yet.. I'm going back to focus on hacking the live data..

 

[Cougar281]

An interesting tidbit I found... According to Ben (DuraToTheMax), when they switched to the T87, they changed the speed sensors:


The speed sensors changed from the traditional AC 'analog' variable-reluctance type (IE, the type that has been around for 30 years) to newer DC hall-effect sensors that produce digital (square wave) signals.

 

[kidturbo]

That's interesting, I'll bring it up with a transmission builder tomorrow.

Searching thru the 87A bin, I found nothing relating to the shaft speed sensors type, or wave pattern. Only a reference to "number of A/D samples per PWM period control"..

What I've learned playing with all these different ECM's' on bench, most will typically accept analog or digital signals on all input lines. So guess I should see how my little PWM signal generators work on this 87 TCM I have wired up. Know those work on the older models, cause I have used em to test harness on a couple trucks in the past.

 

[2004LB7]

That's interesting, I'll bring it up with a transmission builder tomorrow.

Searching thru the 87A bin, I found nothing relating to the shaft speed sensors type, or wave pattern. Only a reference to "number of A/D samples per PWM period control"..

What I've learned playing with all these different ECM's' on bench, most will typically accept analog or digital signals on all input lines. So guess I should see how my little PWM signal generators work on this 87 TCM I have wired up. Know those work on the older models, cause I have used em to test harness on a couple trucks in the past.

Likely because they just stick analog to digital converters on every input pin. Then wether it's digital or analog it's all converted to digital in the end

 

[juddski88]

An interesting tidbit I found... According to Ben (DuraToTheMax), when they switched to the T87, they changed the speed sensors:
The speed sensors changed from the traditional AC 'analog' variable-reluctance type (IE, the type that has been around for 30 years) to newer DC hall-effect sensors that produce digital (square wave) signals.

Hence the translators ATS and CA and the other supplier all use for their option.

I got nothing towards the connector so far. Reason I'm looking for a junk T14. Need to send one off for my CAD buddies to scan and come up with a plan for pins. Unless someone here has a good scanner..

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You'll have mail with 2 junk tcms this week.

 

[kidturbo]

Ya guys just gotta make easy things complicated don't ya.??

The builder requesting E38 mod on the operating table claims to have all those other issues sorted, beside the data. But we still might require a few ADC IO ports for missing inputs from BCM, or to flip a switch.

Just so happens, I have a sweet little ADC to CANbus gateway with 6 12bit channels, and galvanic isolated canbus that I spent months designing for an outside contract that I didn't win. All this cool hardware, and nothing to do..

So not super worried about translating anything I've ran into thus far. Just trying to decide if I should add the extra CANbus transceiver back, so can do straight up Man In The Middle, and firewall the TCM from all other network traffic. Or if that's required, probably ahead to just use my other existing gateway, to convert the GMLAN to J1939, and use the Allison plugNplay TCM off the shelf..

Had someone call about that option couple months ago. But for today, I have an E38 talking to T87 happily with just an old Teensy prototyping board, and about 12 lines of code..

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[Cougar281]

So if the 'translator' is for converting the analog AC signal from the speed sensors to a DC one that the T87 is happy with, wouldn't a better approach be to just change the speed sensors? Granted, that makes it 'not quite' plug n play, but that would be a better approach, IMO.

Also, apparently, the Allison T87 calibration is totally different from the calibrations for other transmissions. It sounds like it's actually Allison code. Ken, is the bin you have from a T87 programmed for an Allison or something else?

 

[kidturbo]

Also, apparently, the Allison T87 calibration is totally different from the calibrations for other transmissions. It sounds like it's actually Allison code. Ken, is the bin you have from a T87 programmed for an Allison or something else?

You are correct, it was written by a private contractor. Want his name, company phone number.. lol

Things ya find stores in code.. Might look him up at PRI if I can't get it hashed out.

GM

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