T87 Swaps

kidturbo

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,363
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
That's exactly why I started with the E38. It's probably the original GlobalA ECM. All those ID's are still found in the E92. They just added a dozen more, and lengthened several existing 5-6 bytes, to 8's. But even with a full DBC file for GlobalA, it's still hard to track and understand what, how, and by whom each parameter is used.

The other trick is creating the missing packets this TCM requires. Think of it as making calculated pids, with a very limited number of starter pids..



Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: pl_silverado and juddski88
kidturbo

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,363
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
2004LB7 said:
View attachment 119185

Do I get a cookie?
Click to expand...
Wow there it is...

Many thanks. I'll send ya some Keebler fudge strips..

Now, did ya happen to spot the emobolizer?? Car still won't start for some reason..

9fbe30f2544c35d9e88a5ae37eabf5fa.jpg


Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
 
kidturbo

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,363
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
After 72hrs straight, on about 10hrs sleep, I was finally able to isolate all the ID's this T87 gasser version requires NOT set a U0100 code. Admittedly, I may have slightly under estimated the CANbus requirements a few pages back...

At least 8 ID's, each with 5 or more parameters, must be created out of thin air to bring it out of limp mode and clear the code. Some are easy, just a single bit switch, or rpm and min/max torque values that can be found in existing ECM transmitted parameters. Then some others, take a lot of thought. Calculated values based off multiple inputs like MAP, Load, MAF, APPS, and who knows what else. Engine ON or Off timers, and my personal favorites, 2-4 bit rolling counters.. And can't forget, the OS set axle ratio is also being sent to the TCM, for some speed comparison.. That wasn't the case prior to 15.. So I'm just now discovering all these new parameters used by the E92/94 models.

Luckily some of these "required" ID's will accept random garbage to fool the DTC triggers. Which actually helped to sort out what's critical and what's not. Yey some others like these counters, need to actually be rolling before TCM will accept the related data. And I haven't even checked the data heading back to the TCM from the ECM side yet. Hopefully the LMM to T87 Allison will have better matching parameter set. While we can probably write out some of these parameters in the TCM, it's hard to guestimate which ones are actually required to not screw up related tables.. TCM is requires specific engine torque related data to adjust pressures and shift times, and it also send out commands to defuel on shifts. So is gonna require a couple trees in paper to print all this out to visualize.

For now, I'm staying focused on sorting data, but I did receive this little piece of the puzzle today. Let ya know if it does the Trick..

20231114_132629.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: 455buick, DAVe3283 and juddski88
kidturbo

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,363
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
Took one of those T14 frames to my pcb repair guy last Friday, and ask if he could solder a wire to one of those pins.. 30 seconds later, he handed it back, ask what was the issue?? Issue is I obviously suck at it...

20231120_145015.jpg

Also wired up that little sensor fixer over the weekend, and it seems to work as designed. Have only fed it a bench emulated PWM signal so far. But tonight I am going to wire it into the T87 and then go dig out a reluctor wheel, pickup, and a cordless drill..

IMG_20231119_132404.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: pl_silverado and 2004LB7
kidturbo

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,363
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
I've been messing around with trying to make the E38 talk to the T87 all this time. Ran into an issue requiring a cax file to be loaded into either the ECM or TCM to resolve a 1 byte length difference in a required canbus msg. Ya can't spoof an extra byte onto an existing msg...

So now I'm gonna dig out the E35b and get to the good stuff. I've tested my converter setup with recorded data, and looks to be happy. So hope to get a video up before turkey day..

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: pl_silverado
kidturbo

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,363
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
Solved the E38 msg bug today, and then cleaned most of the gasser stuff off my desk to make room for that T14 and E35B harness. A west coast friend with exceptional bin hacking skills, along with a few key words to search for, and he solved it on the second attempt.. No easy way around using a cax file in the ECM. But I figure anyone running a 8 or 10spd against an E38, is likely gonna have the skillset required to load a file in a twenty year old $50 ECM.. So we be calling that one done for the moment.

Now for the Allsion, where nobody wants to load a custom bin, or craw under the vehicle to change sensors. I'm not really much good with doing tech support before noon.. So how long do I have left to produce that video before the Cranberry Sauce is served? I sure hope this one goes smoother.

:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1FastBrick and pl_silverado
C

Cougar281

Well-known member
Sep 11, 2006
1,809
252
83
St Louis, MO
Well, my opinion is if crawling your butt to change a few sensors avoids 'extra hardware', no matter how simple, assuming we're talking about a PHYSICIALLY compatible swap, I'd be all on board with a sensor swap... A few minutes under the truck changing a few sensors vs the (very slim) potential of an extra module crapping out.. just saying. Nothing's perfect. Remember K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Stupid. Your 'massaging module' is a great idea, but if the alternative is just swapping a few sensors..... Keeps it simpler (IMO).
 
  • Like
Reactions: LBZ, pl_silverado and malibu795
kidturbo

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,363
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
The sensors wave swap is actually the easiest part. No code required.

KISS is certainly the motto. Avoiding a packet firewall situation at all costs is the goal. Filtering and forwarding traffic isn't a terrible approach, if ya can get it right. OEMs been moving that way on the DLC as a security step for a while now. But when you're routing every bus packet, it requires power and precision, so as not to introduce errors. Or brick a node when it fails to handle a bin update command correctly. IE aftermarket head units that don't shut up when flashing...

So once I get things setup, we'll know quickly what's actually required. Doing a custom bin like I tested today on the ECM or TCM, is a quick and fairly safe approach. But if that node fails, you're stuck looking for the correct bin, and a way to load it..

@Cougar281 your starter kit be on the way tomorrow. Was also confirmed today that the bin file I've been using as a guide, is actually the 87A for Allison. Guess I'll attempt to load your ctz on this Camaro T87 tomorrow, so we are at least starting with the 15 model. Then you can play with this one I have also for comparison..

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Cougar281
C

Cougar281

Well-known member
Sep 11, 2006
1,809
252
83
St Louis, MO
Awesome. My truck, being the red-headed stepchild LBZ, it's a bit out there from the main crowd, but it shares one common issue: the A40 (which we all know is basically the same as the A46, A50, T14 and any other variants I'm missing or forgetting). Now, assuming we can get all the HSGMLAN stuff happy, I suspect this would work with a LBZ just fine.... Except for the PRNDL, tow haul and probably tap shift, which I believe go through the BCM and Class2, but it's been a minute since I've looked at that... I suspect it would be a fair bit easier than the '6-speed with a LLY' from years past lol. Assuming that works out, it's a start for the red-headed step children out there lol.
 
kidturbo

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,363
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
Ok ran into a small issue that might make me miss out on the cranberry sauce today.

Attempted to load the 2015 Allison ctz file @Cougar281 shared with me onto this fine T87 unit, and that's a no go with EFIlive Ver8.

Operating system mismatch between file: (24274899) and controller: (24281915).

I have an MDI2, and a bin file that was created from said ctz. However don't have any good software to try and force the issue. What's the options??
 
0

08lmm72mm

Active member
May 13, 2019
537
168
43
Saskatchewan, Canada
kidturbo said:
Ok ran into a small issue that might make me miss out on the cranberry sauce today.

Attempted to load the 2015 Allison ctz file @Cougar281 shared with me onto this fine T87 unit, and that's a no go with EFIlive Ver8.

Operating system mismatch between file: (24274899) and controller: (24281915).

I have an MDI2, and a bin file that was created from said ctz. However don't have any good software to try and force the issue. What's the options??
Click to expand...
Message someone over at efi live see if they can allow it to pass through?
 
C

Cougar281

Well-known member
Sep 11, 2006
1,809
252
83
St Louis, MO
What's the part number on your T87? The problem with using SPS2 is it's on the bench, not in a truck. Somewhere along the line, bench flashing with SPS2 is not possible (without some tomfoolery), but I don't know where that line in the sand is. You might be able to do a 2015 T87 on the bench or you might not. I WAS just able to flash a T42 with a 2007 truck calibration using SPS2, so it seems it' not really SPS2 itself, but something else, possibly related to security and how the modules talk to each other for the security process.

Oh, and the CTZ from my TCM is from a 2016, so while the part number may be the same or compatible, the 2015 had a different OS it seems.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1FastBrick
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom