Oil cooling

[super diesel]

I'm only seeing the extreme temps when I really start hitting the hills and pulling loads up them. The thing about this is, some times you never know when you will need to do this (unless planned trip). These trucks are supposedly made to do this. Just like addressing high EGTs. Short term doesn't effect it much. It's the sustained and when it happens is what needs to be fixed. I believe in being ready for this situation so there's no worries and can be watched and controlled. It only takes once to make a problem.

 

[Chevy1925]

:drool: Yum, yum. Lots of working room there James.

Yea, the 227*f was empty but I was running the LB7 up the grade on the Clark Kent tune with the duals running and the GT42 pumpin hard. I was trying hard to temp it up. The LB7 dually is 8100lbs the way it sits (cert CAT scale with 6 gal of fuel). I got the LLY (3500 cc/lb srw with a 2500+lb old slide in camper) with the stock tune and stock liquid cooled turbo up to 244*f on the same pull with no cooler.

I cant remember if your running the liquid cooled turbo or a journal bearing? This will make a difference too.

i have a stocker down in the valley and a journal 475 on top of it. Whats the total length of two stock ally coolers side by side? if i can fit the two up top of the bumper, that would be great so i can put a fuel cooler below it.

I'm only seeing the extreme temps when I really start hitting the hills and pulling loads up them. The thing about this is, some times you never know when you will need to do this (unless planned trip). These trucks are supposedly made to do this. Just like addressing high EGTs. Short term doesn't effect it much. It's the sustained and when it happens is what needs to be fixed. I believe in being ready for this situation so there's no worries and can be watched and controlled. It only takes once to make a problem.

exactly. thats the biggest reason i bought twins was to be able to tow on a pretty big tune with EGTs in check. Now i have to get everthing else up to par to keep up with the demand i want. My goal is a 500hp tow truck that my GF can get behind the wheel of with a load and have it drive like a stock truck jsut with more power . the HP is well beyond what these motors were ever designed for but i think its fairly feasable and be able to keep a long engine life. i hate having to "drive" the truck when i tow like on the stock charger where i was constantly watching the EGT gauge even on a samll 60-90hp tune. basically looking for a factory 500hp truck if that makes sense

 

[super diesel]

The 5 speed coolers are 27" side by side (I have a gap between mine for the wench mount and I can double stack them if needed to make it 4 coolers which is something to keep in mind) and you will need about 8 1/2-9" top to bottom for mounting and hose hookups. The 6 speeds are wider and I'm waiting on a couple to get here for sizing.

 

[super diesel]

Did some research on coolers. Specifically Setrab. These can be had a ebay and I'm sure that Mike L. can get you hooked up as well (where I recommend). For the cheap route I'm using the stock trans coolers as stated before. I will also be doing a double stack of these to see if I can keep the oil temps down when hauling 20K in an extreme environment which will be the west side of Loveland Pass up to the Eisenhower tunnel which is 7% grade for about 7-8 miles then tappers to a easy going 6% grade for the last few miles and enters the tunnel just above 11K ft elevation. It's an ugly pull that lots and lots of vehicles break on (this is where I spun one of my mains at). The Setrab coolers stack up like this for the unit's I think we can use. These are ALL a total of 16" wide with mounting tabs and a tick over 14" W/O the mounting tabs and 2" thick. The heights vary on them with model #. Here they are;

910 is 3" tall (need 2 or more min)
915 is 4.5" tall (need 2 min and about = to a twin double stack of stock trans coolers)
920 is 6" tall
925 is 7 5/8" tall (Mike L. trans cooler)
934 is 10 3/8" tall
948 is 14 3/4" tall

BTUs that are removed from these are listed but this also varies on air flow amount, speed of air flow, and gal per min being pushed through the coolers. Complete exposure is you best friend when possible. Fittings will be needed and you will need to take into account the height needed over the cooler for the fittings (I use 90 deg fittings on top just out of the coolers because of height restrictions).

I also want to add that if a adapter is used that totally reroutes the oil to a external thermostat, be SURE that the fittings for it has a min of .550 ID (.600 or 5/8" ID is better) in order to not restrict the oil flow. These are -12AN fittings min. On the adapters I use and mod, this is not such a factor. I increase the flow through it, but the port are -10AN in which I also open up some for flow as well. These can go to -12AN fittings because of this. There are also other restrictions that I remove. However on this adapter, some of the oil flow is diverted to the coolers (which it dependent on temp of the oil) and has a way to escape if the coolers cant flow the full amount of oil from the pump so there is no restrictions. I can get away with -10AN fittings and lines in this instance. However, if the cooler has flow capabilities of -12AN passages and the GPM flow capabilities, I would recommend this. The oil will flow slightly slower through the -12AN passages and line (more time cooling in the coolers) than it will through the -10AN lines (as small as .440 or around 7/16" through the fittings) and passages (not saying it wont do a wonderful job of cooling the oil though). I base this port size and flow capabilities on what the existing size of the Dmax oil ports and passages are which I think is a safe thing to do.

 

[duratothemax]

Would a factory 6-speed tranny cooler (mounted in stock "LBZ" location, below where the 5-speed tranny cooler normally sits) be a fairly effective setup? Im sure they can be found used for cheap.

 

[super diesel]

Would a factory 6-speed tranny cooler (mounted in stock "LBZ" location, below where the 5-speed tranny cooler normally sits) be a fairly effective setup? Im sure they can be found used for cheap.

Maybe Ben. I have put in a request for a few to see how we can use them effectively. The only concerns I have is the heat transfer to the cooling stack. Might be just fine in a non heavy tow situation. Best thing I like Ben, is the oil pressures that have been observed by me to this point. It shows that the oil is staying thicker, thus this effect creates a more durable oil film in the bearing surfaces where we need it. All I can say Ben, is try it. See what you get. But also watch the coolant temps if towing heavy because this heat will all be transmitted back to the engine coolant, Intercooler, and A/C condenser as I'm sure your aware. Maybe you have a plan or an idea? Sucks rotten eggs that we don't have more area to work with on the stock bumpers. As I stated before, on the LLY I will be doing something unconventional with the lower valence to fix this. When I get it done, I'll post pics.

 

[super diesel]

Here's the break down on the 600 series Setrab coolers which may fit better in some apps and can be mounted side by side like what I did in between the frame rails. They all have a core width of 11 1/8" wide and the total overall width including the mounting ears is 13" and 2" thick. The heights vary from cooler to cooler and is what I'm listing next to it and is approximate.
610 is 3" tall
613 is 4" tall
616 is 4 3/4" tall
619 is 5 3/4" tall
625 is 7 5/8" tall
634 is 10 3/8" tall
640 is 12 1/4" tall
650 is 15 5/16" tall
660 is 18 5/16" tall
Hope this helps some out there in finding a cooler of the correct size. As I stated else where, I mount all the coolers with the fittings up so the oil doesn't completely drain out of the coolers after shut down and the oil pump doesn't have to fill them up each time it starts up. This also insures the entire cooling area is being utilized by the hot oil (no trapped air or hot oil running through just the lower portion of the cooler). I have been questioned on gal per min also. That is dependent on pressures as well. What flows 20 gal a min at 100psi will not flow 20gal per min at 10psi. This is why I mod the adapter the way I did. Just some more info.

 

[BLKLMM]

Installed my oil temp guage saw temps of 180 just normal driving and lots of freeway driving, outside temps were in the low 70*

 

[super diesel]

Installed my oil temp guage saw temps of 180 just normal driving and lots of freeway driving, outside temps were in the low 70*

Good hear your keeping an eye on it. Spent a lot of time in Oceanside myself. Keep us posted with observation you make going up any mountains too and if you pull or carry anything any time. Maybe we can formulate something here with what outside temp, driving conditions, and towed or carried weight plays into the oil temps and when the coolers are needed. I already found out there needed for mountain driving (even empty for me with the dually) and when towing or carrying much at all and especially when running a bigger journal bearing charger and squeezing some juice from it ascending those hills.

 

[GeneralTJI]

Toyed with the idea of putting a couple fittings in the oil pan, and using a small pump to move oil through a cooler/fan mounted on the frame.. then your not using engine oil pressure to operate the cooler setup? Just a thought....

 

[Sledhead]

Toyed with the idea of putting a couple fittings in the oil pan, and using a small pump to move oil through a cooler/fan mounted on the frame.. then your not using engine oil pressure to operate the cooler setup? Just a thought....

Someone else had this idea too and I think its a good one. Pumps don't last forever though.

I'm going to do the adapter and a nice big aluminum cooler and if the temps are still too high I may pull from the pan with a pump and push it through 2 smaller coolers where the tow hooks are now.

 

[GeneralTJI]

So really, what i see is that maybe its not that our factory cooler is inefficent, its that we shouldnt be using coolant under hot/heavy condition to keep oil at an acceptable level since its threshold for heat is not too far off of peak coolant temps we see when under the same conditions.

Good point. My gauge reads post factory cooler. Temps are actually very close to water temp! Usually my oil temp gauge reads 170-190 depending on conditions... during the summer I've seen little over 200 as I mentioned earlier in this thread. My guess is that the water temp is up around 200 as well. I can monitor my exact water temp now with my ultra-gauge, so I will be able to really see if the two run in line etc.

I was going to move mine to pre-cooler to get a more accurate temp, but I put a pipe on the allen wrench and folded the pipe over trying to loosen the top allen I remember the lower one was tight when I installed the temp gauge, but that is pushing it.... not worth wrecking something. I may install my temp sender in the oil feed line to the turbo when I build my new setup this next week. We'll see.

 

[super diesel]

Toyed with the idea of putting a couple fittings in the oil pan, and using a small pump to move oil through a cooler/fan mounted on the frame.. then your not using engine oil pressure to operate the cooler setup? Just a thought....

Only way to find out is by trying it. I suspect the fans won't cool it down nearly as much as the coolers in the direct air stream (will help in stop and go traffic but this doesn't seem to be the issue). The engine oil pump is pushing it through the exterior coolers right before it enters the motor passages going to the journals and squirters to lube the moving components. There in a tug of war with the factory cooler/heater. If the oil is returning to the motor cooler than the factory cooler/heater, it warms it up. I'm not saying to get rid of it. This is a needed component for warming up cold oil and maintain the oils proper operating temp. Maybe this combo WITH a cooler "T" stat may help in this instance. The key to me was that the oil coming from the pan was still reaching into the 220s (remember that I was pushing it hard) BUT the oil pressure was at 60psi now with the coolers when before at these temps it was dipping to 33-35psi without them. The motor IS getting much cooler oil into the moving parts surfaces. Haven't done the big tow set up yet but I figure that if I can get the LB7 to run cooler with 20K up these big grades, with the journal bearing turbo puffin, it will work most every where else for the major majority. However, if your running twin (or more) journal bearing turbos and are working them good, you may see slightly more. I'll try some grades with the W/M on to control EGTs some, but the EGTs will still be in the 1200-1300 range, so I doubt it will help the oil temps much.

Here's the ultimate Todd. Your cooler idea WITH a oil cooler set up in the air stream for the truly heavy loads and going for broke. :woott:

 

[BLKLMM]

FYI...I also run the McRats thermostats so I am cooler...see pic of water temps...Drove about 150 miles Today and saw temps up to 182 going up a small hill and it would cool down at the signal lights,just my observation

 

[GeneralTJI]

Only way to find out is by trying it. I suspect the fans won't cool it down nearly as much as the coolers in the direct air stream (will help in stop and go traffic but this doesn't seem to be the issue). The engine oil pump is pushing it through the exterior coolers right before it enters the motor passages going to the journals and squirters to lube the moving components. There in a tug of war with the factory cooler/heater. If the oil is returning to the motor cooler than the factory cooler/heater, it warms it up. I'm not saying to get rid of it. This is a needed component for warming up cold oil and maintain the oils proper operating temp. Maybe this combo WITH a cooler "T" stat may help in this instance. The key to me was that the oil coming from the pan was still reaching into the 220s (remember that I was pushing it hard) BUT the oil pressure was at 60psi now with the coolers when before at these temps it was dipping to 33-35psi without them. The motor IS getting much cooler oil into the moving parts surfaces. Haven't done the big tow set up yet but I figure that if I can get the LB7 to run cooler with 20K up these big grades, with the journal bearing turbo puffin, it will work most every where else for the major majority. However, if your running twin (or more) journal bearing turbos and are working them good, you may see slightly more. I'll try some grades with the W/M on to control EGTs some, but the EGTs will still be in the 1200-1300 range, so I doubt it will help the oil temps much.

Here's the ultimate Todd. Your cooler idea WITH a oil cooler set up in the air stream for the truly heavy loads and going for broke. :woott:

Good info :thumb:

I'll be watching things a lot closer this summer... may look into some sort of cooling. "might" start with a pan cooler setup because I have some small hydraulic pumps laying around I could rig up something pretty inexpensively... though I agree with you, a setup like you have out front is going to be better overall!

 

[super diesel]

Just noticed a thread on Diesel Place about a spun cam and rod bearing. It's titled "2007 lbz Spun rod and cam bearing". He states he was using Amsoil for the first 75K, then switched to Schaeffers for the rest up to 203K. Looks like he tows allot. This is just one example. How many more are out there!?!? I'm not saying it was caused by the particular oil as there are many other threads like this one running different oils, however I don't like hearing this kind of stuff and this reinforces my thoughts that the high oil temps are causing havoc (if not right away, it can cause issues further down the road while driving continuously on this compromised oil that folks have no idea that it has been compromised). Mechanical stuff WILL fail. However this is the kind of stuff that I want to try to avoid and/or lessen the chances of it taking mine and others motors out (been there, done that). This is also why I believe getting the motors into the proper operating temp is important if running synthetics or dino oil. Sorry, no band aids for me.

 

[Gasuout]

Havnt read your whole thread . I think I get the jist of it . Your on target to something I have been brewing on for many years .

Is this about oil temps . Ive wanted to put an external cooler on the kodiak for a long time . Just stupid and lazy I guess . Easier to ignore something you know yourself to be a issue . Oil Temp . Had huge issue with this personally in mine . I myself have noticed for many years when towing and especially in mine being heavier overall by 6k lbs . Oil pressure drop to 28-35 psi going up grades even with water temps in check . This is on a tow tune with 1200* -1250* max . You wouldnt think you would see a big effect from just normal towing and agreeable egts ? . If I back off it some to 1100-1050 . ( Your slowing down when doing this by the way ) I can watch the oil pressure come back up . Tested the theory many times . It only happens when you hold those egts for 5-10 minutes like on Baker Grade . Hell thats a long grade . 17 mile grade @ 40 mph loaded down max . Im back in 3rd gear @ 2500-2600 just holding egts from the bottom of grade practically . I get a run at her but slowely drop off about 1/3 grade to the slow lane . 5th .... 4th ... and finally 3rd in the slow lane .. chugging along . Higher rpm in 3rd is much better egts and water temp vs chugging it in 4th . And average mph is easier on the truck . Im already on the constant running higher egts then most due to weight before I even get to the grade . Oil is already hot before I start climbing . I even see a oil psi drop unloaded just running a grade hard on bigger tunes . Overall you still are seeing a drop in oil psi all the time in my opinion . Oil cooler is something I would try for sure . On Grades .. I always roll windows down and turn heater on . Keeps water temp from going over 215 and allows you to keep rolling holding your set towing max egt and making the grade . But the main reason I always do it is because I see that damn oil pressure gauge down . It helps . When the water temp goes up .... the oil pressure drops even more .

Ran to Phoenix last weekend . ... empty . Running Indio grade .... was just looking at this oil psi thing last week . And why I was talking about it at the drags to a few people . And possible alternate oils or more whats the best oil to run . This motor I have now makes lower overall oil pressure then any previous motor I have had . So this issue is even worse then before . Before motors oil pressure only went down to 35 psi on big grades hot . This motor concerns me some and will drop all the way to 20 psi hot up a grade now towing . Idles hot in gear at 15 psi . Loose as a goose it must be . But its hanging together . Why a oil cooler would be even more of a concern to me . My ass puckers going up grades and seeing oil pressure under 30 . Wouldnt yours seeing as low as 20 psi . Been like this since this motor was put in . Always hated it but hell it runs fine . 3 years . I drive it . Unless it has no oil pressure its getting run . All previous motors hot in gear . 20 psi minimum hot in gear . This motor new . 17-18 psi hot in gear round town . 15 psi at idle in gear if really hot and stopping to get fuel . You notice quick oil psi that low . I try not to look .

When you get the truck up a grade ... you notice about halfway up ..... oil pressure drop . Has to be heat . Thought about it too many times . Id be really curious to put one on mine and go up a grade . Overall at the motors hardest use ... its having hot oil thrown at it . I need to address this .

I use to run Delo 15-40 forever 1st 2 motors .... for the life of my truck . After putting this motor in . Wasnt sure how good the rings were sealing after about 5k miles . Could smell oil . Saw the lower oil pressure too . The Delo really stunk . Decided to try a different oil . Went to Valvoline Blue . Always ran Valvoline on all my other vehicles for years . Put Valvoline Blue 15/40 in it . Sure didnt stink like the Delo . Been running it ever since . Previous hot rods ... always ran 20/50 Race Valvoline . SAE 50 race in the 454 jetboat .

For whatever reason the Valvoline didnt smell like the delo . Im sure it was awhile needed to break the motor in better . Either way . I switched oils and run Valvoline Blue 15/40 ever since . I even have another batch of oil I picked up . Havnt run it yet . Mystik 15-50 . Dont know anything about it other then its diesel HD oil for heavy equip . I saw it and bought it . Just seeing the viscosity . Im debating running Valvoline 20/50 race oil . Its not diesel oil but from my understanding has the properties needed and will work fine in a diesel . Thoughts ?

Just seeing the things I am pondering .... a oil cooler would be good to add to the mix . I need to investigate this and find a good cooler . Im stupid for waitng this long to do it .

So where are you tapping into the block . Right above filter housing ?

Turbo oil lines ?

Addition of a oil filter adapter to external everything . Oil filter and cooler ?

How does this addition effect the overall flow to the rest of the motor . Is it a strain on the system or oil pump ?

Fan cooled cooler ? Multible ?

When at Bonneville . Looked real close at the dry sump stuff on the dmax streamliner . Larger onboard storage of oil would be real cool with something like this . Unrealistic for a street driven truck ... but cool . And always good cool oil .

This is something I would like to figure out for mine . A cooler . I think it would overall be beneficial . This motor or any motor in my chassis . Ive seen it 1st hand and the differences in oil psi . This motor more then previous . always saw this though . I would know right away if the oil cooler made a difference .

Long winded ... sorry . Had to get all of it out there for it to make sense . I guess i could have just said "Yes " .. seen this oil psi drop also . :rofl:


So you added a oil cooler and notice a immediate difference in temps on grades ?

 

[super diesel]

Great Post Johnny and thanks for sharing. If any ones oils are getting hot and worked out, it's yours. Yes, I noticed an immediate improvement (25+psi at 1800rpm when the oil was in the 220s*). Check post #57 for oil temp probe location. Post #65 tells about the temp gauge I'm using, but it what ever is your flavor as long as it is accurate. This gauge is a life line to you truck. Are you still running that SB turbo? If not, which? I'm using two of the stock 5 speed trans coolers right now. Biggest thing is to get the coolers in the air stream. My require cutting on some trucks .

 

[Turbotug]

Kinda forgot, but I had originally purchased a used cooler with the intentions of building my own setup. When I received it I realized the dimensions given were of the core, not overall. So, I didn't think it would fit between the frame rails without removing tow hooks and building some larger mounts, etc. I wasn't willing to give up the tow hooks..

It should work for someone without a need for the tow hooks, has a custom bumper, or wants to do a different mounting set up. You will need to measure your truck to get "FOR SURE" locations.

Gross measurements: 30"L x 5"W x 5"h

Tank/core measurements: 30"L x 4.25"W x 3.5"H

I believe they are -10 fittings. They have an ID of 5/8".

IIRC, I dropped a few hundred bucks on this at the time. Just looking to get most of my $$ back..shoot me an offer.

 

[Turbotug]