Suspension ideas...need input please
- Thread starter TheBac
- Start date
I'm thinking using something like an Energy Suspension 9.9101 bump stop for the snubber, and 2" square tubing for the extendable mount. Weld that mount to a plate spanning either the two crossmembers above the rear diff or the frame itself.
Maybe I'll get under the truck tomorrow night and create something.
Rob, what is your opinion of using adjustable axle stops like for sled pulling to help keep the rear from squatting? Pretty much use the OEM stops on adjustable mounts? Keep them spaced the same as the snubber so the max frame squat keeps the driveline in line?
Maybe I'll get under the truck tomorrow night and create something.
Rob, what is your opinion of using adjustable axle stops like for sled pulling to help keep the rear from squatting? Pretty much use the OEM stops on adjustable mounts? Keep them spaced the same as the snubber so the max frame squat keeps the driveline in line?
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What about using a shock absorber off of a snowplow? Would they be strong enough? They are small and compact by design http://www.centralparts.com/ProductDetails987.aspx
curious to see what you come up with i'm guessing the snubber would have to be removeable for the suspension to still have its normal travel after your done racing thats the only thing i cant picture designing it in my head but it could be done would have to look under the truck to get a better picture in my head
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curious to see what you come up with i'm guessing the snubber would have to be removeable for the suspension to still have its normal travel after your done racing thats the only thing i cant picture designing it in my head but it could be done would have to look under the truck to get a better picture in my head
Please forgive the childish drawing.
My fab shop customer was open today (he got a buck and a doe this weekend) and we talked briefly about this. He figures 2" ID double-strength pipe for the snubber body with a 1-1/2" ID double-strength pipe for the "extension" that the snubber attaches to. He thinks these pieces should fit snugly enough together so there isnt any slop at the snubber. Slop = bad.
This assembly would be welded to a 1/4" plate that would span the two crossmembers on the frame. It will probably need a strengthening rib since the tube will be so long (I estimate 18").
The tubes will have holes maybe 1/2" apart in them for adjustment. Just use a pin or a bolt to hold the pieces in place.
In theory the tube could then be slid back up into the body and secured away from the diff when not in use.
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Looks like it will fold the snubber out of the way! Snubber needs to be in a straight line above the pinion, then the brace is also not needed. The 1/4" plate on top should probably be 2"x2" tube min., 1/4" will bend pretty easy...
thats kinda what i had pictured as well just wasnt sure if there would be enough upward adjustment to slide it up out of the way for normal use or if it would have to be removed , it would not have to be straight up and down but it would have to be built twice as strong being at an angle .
x2 straight up and down you need less material to handle X weight/force then anything off 90*
i would def try and have it mounted parrellal to axles veritcal movement
ideally you want the pinion shaft adn drive shaft @ 0* misalingment or 1-2* tillted down while under a load. theing to think about when setting it up how much do the leaves springs flex? bushings inthe eyes of the said springs?
i know sephical(hiem joint) still alow 1-2.5* fo flex pendign suspension setup..
it would not surprise me if our trucks had cloe to 10* of role/twist of the pinion even with trac bars and spring clamped though thows said item would worl to reduce said rotation the general idea look good tom.
Good info Adam...Going off of memory, we used to set up leaf spring cars at -5* to -7* pinion angle because of how much rotation they have at launch...With the weight and torque of our trucks, I wouldn't be surprised at 10* either...That was the reason I bought Cal-Tracs, not because I wanted to do wheelstands, I just figured it was a good idea to limit housing rotation...I haven't checked pinion angle yet, but I think I will soon...IMHO, I would build the snubber so you could get it very close to the rearend and make small adjustments, then be able to remove it for the ride home...
Thanks guys. Yeah. straight up would make more sense but theres going to have to be some gussets welded to the body sides to help support it against the diff force even then.
I think the reason you havent seen anyone make this yet is due to the sheer length of the body...it may be unwieldy.
Pinion angle is something I havent even delved into yet. I need an angle finder to see what the OEM pinion is set at. I did find an old thread at the Place concerning a guy installing 1/2 ton springs and he measured pinion angles and height. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112852&highlight=1/2+ton+springs
It is something that will have to be addresssed.
I'll get some PVC pipe and do a mock up in the next few days.
I think the reason you havent seen anyone make this yet is due to the sheer length of the body...it may be unwieldy.
Pinion angle is something I havent even delved into yet. I need an angle finder to see what the OEM pinion is set at. I did find an old thread at the Place concerning a guy installing 1/2 ton springs and he measured pinion angles and height. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112852&highlight=1/2+ton+springs
It is something that will have to be addresssed.
I'll get some PVC pipe and do a mock up in the next few days.
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I said it before and I will say it again....
Biscuit Bar. or a standard pull bar. I think it would work even better with traction bars.
Wish someone would try it, I guess maybe I should just do it lol.
Biscuit Bar. or a standard pull bar. I think it would work even better with traction bars.
Wish someone would try it, I guess maybe I should just do it lol.
Extend a plate 6 inches forward of the differential yoke which will give you tremendous leverage on the down force. Design the brace so that you can change the angle of the down force of the snubber. This will work better than traction bars.
With the Snubber Idea....
1)Would the force of the frame coming down be greater than to force of the pinion rotating up? With the snubber close to pinion, will the frame force/load (travel) be so great, it causes the snubber to push the pinion angle down?
2)If the force of the pinion angle coming up is greater than the force of the frame coming down, will the rotation cause leverage to cause a low rear weight condition? (lifting the rear, loosing traction). I know some would think the to 2 coming together would cause a down force on rear end, but it really wouldn't, because the pinions energy is coming from rotation (leverage).
Something to think about....
I am thinking stop rotation of the rear end. Traction bars on the bottom will only do so much. Instead of a snubber over the pinion, why not a bar on top of pumpkin, that is parallel to the ground going forward, to STOP rotation all together (with traction bars as well). That way the rear is still allowed to "set" and release it weighted energy to the tires. The axle and suspension can do there work without having a stop (snubber) limiting them.
1)Would the force of the frame coming down be greater than to force of the pinion rotating up? With the snubber close to pinion, will the frame force/load (travel) be so great, it causes the snubber to push the pinion angle down?
2)If the force of the pinion angle coming up is greater than the force of the frame coming down, will the rotation cause leverage to cause a low rear weight condition? (lifting the rear, loosing traction). I know some would think the to 2 coming together would cause a down force on rear end, but it really wouldn't, because the pinions energy is coming from rotation (leverage).
Something to think about....
I am thinking stop rotation of the rear end. Traction bars on the bottom will only do so much. Instead of a snubber over the pinion, why not a bar on top of pumpkin, that is parallel to the ground going forward, to STOP rotation all together (with traction bars as well). That way the rear is still allowed to "set" and release it weighted energy to the tires. The axle and suspension can do there work without having a stop (snubber) limiting them.
thats a good idea, it would still travel up and down with the suspension travel. like a pan hard bar but turned frontword instead of side ways you could make it adjustable for preload also , i know this would cure rotation but dont know the effect on the traction issue . if you made it a triangle with 2 atatching points on the axel and 1 on a crossmember like they do on a air ride 3 link ? unless we are picturing something different .
My idea is simple as a pull bar for our truck. A biscuit bar would be the same only have a bushing to absorb hard hits. Maybe even a shock on a biscuit bar. O an x-factor pull bar.