Suspension ideas...need input please

[othrgrl]

I run traction bars that we made, cranked out to preload the springs; torsion bars drops all the way and SkyJacker Nitro 8000 (non adjustable) shocks. I cut consistant 1.6X on worn out BFG ATs with a best of 1.66 and even when I did spin there was no hop and high 1.6 - low 1.7 60's. On the cheater slicks with the same setup I have cut 1.59 with consistant low 1.6X. I really like the way my rear is setup - very little, if any squat and never any hop. Up front I have thought about adding "traction bars" like what some serious FWD cars run. They would go from the frame to the lower A arm as far toward the ball joint as possible - just getting them in there so that you can still turn the wheels would be fun. I plan to get some front shocks with a very slow rebound - I don't like how much the front comes up. I wouldn't want any kind of hard limiting strap - I think something with some give/stretch to it would do better and not get squirelly.

My truck really likes 2nd gear launches and I cut better 60' times in 2nd regardless of the track. I'm going to work on and try the 1st gear launchs more but I've just found that which launch works better just depends on the rest of the truck setup.

 

[J Spruill]

Ive heard that about strapping the front end too, its a bad idea resulting in really bad wheel hop. Ive cut 1.68 60' times on 285 nitto terra grapplers, bars all the way down, 25lbs in the front 30 in the rear, and the rear of the leaf springs clamped, and its never hopped on me. I cut better 60's with either the rear clamped or both, but with just the front i could never get below 1.7's. I also run bilstein yellows, and havent tried the 2nd gear launch in drag racing yet.

Rob

i dont think it s a bad idea but it does take work,if the strap is to short it will cause this,why not try and make the strap a bit longer til it helps but doesnt raise the tires. we run consistent 1.3x 60fts and multiple 1.30s. the ranchos will help a but load over the bilstiens...

 

[TheBac]

Wow...some really good ideas coming out. Thanks guys.

 

[TrentNell]

The RS 9000 shocks helped me with 60' times.

I've cut 1.64's with michelen atx "e", 1.65 with proxies, and 1.69's with stockers, 1.7x's with slicks.

Tom how is the track? Have you tried another track for comparison? Do other trucks at that track cut good 60' times? I've found certain tracks do not hook no matter what you do.

My set-up is as follows. Lower tbars, clamp front of rear spring, adjust shocks to the stiffest setting, lower tire pressures. I don't have caltracs or any other bars.

I have tried many, many different setups as far as shock settings, different tire pressures, tire choices.

2nd gear launches work on a slippery track, but on a good track I can cut better 60' in 1st. Fun launching with 30#'s and 3000rpm though.

I'd think a pinion snubber may help. I've tried strapping the front(with slicks) and almost totaled the truck as it turned left towards the wall. If you block the rear, leave some travel. Biggest thing is to keep the weight forward on your drive wheels.

was that run in slc at rmr cause i was staging when that happend and i though you broke a tie rod at first it was def squrilly . i got some caltracs and i am going to build some adjustable bump stops for the upper control arm off the bracket that is the limmit for droop, make it adjustible then i can adjust the amount the front end is alowed to rise, then on the street i can just screw them all the way in or remove but this is just a theory dont know if it will help or not i will not find out till next year my track is closed . best 60 to date is sadly a 1.82 but our track prep sucks . plus i just built a dual font shock setup that fits with the truck being lowered .

 

[IdahoRob]

was that run in slc at rmr cause i was staging when that happend and i though you broke a tie rod at first it was def squrilly

No, that wasn't too bad at SLC. This was in Boise, I had my arms crossed back over trying to not wreak it.

 

[Redbone]

I'll throw in my $.02. Besides the usual adjustments, t-bars down, tire pressure, etc. I'm running a set of Cat-Tracs. Found out over the last couple of the weeks of the season that, contrary to my instinct to tie the front end down, actually letting it transfer slightly and taking some preload off the Cal Tracs, helped ET and consistency. Dropped 60' to a best of 1.69.

Last 2 passes of the year were [email protected] and [email protected]. I'm running pretty conservatively (stock turbo, injectors, CP3, ..) on 265's.

 

[WanaDmaxsub]

Ok, I did a search and figured out what a "pinion snubber" is.
Looks like a cheap, easy and good way to keep the rear end from rotating. What am I missing? Is there a down side to using one of these?
Say I clamp the front and back of the springs. Set my suspension blocks so that there is 1" of travel and set the snubber with the same gap. (yea, I'm think sled pulling here) Will it work?

 

[TheBac]

Ok, I did a search and figured out what a "pinion snubber" is.
Looks like a cheap, easy and good way to keep the rear end from rotating. What am I missing? Is there a down side to using one of these?
Say I clamp the front and back of the springs. Set my suspension blocks so that there is 1" of travel and set the snubber with the same gap. (yea, I'm think sled pulling here) Will it work?

Dunno til I try. :rofl: 2"OD square tube in a 2"ID square tube may work. HEY TNRGREENE -- what'd you use for your rear adjustable bumpstops?
Merchant seems to think we could use some sort of jackscrew setup.
The only thing causing me headaches right now is where to mount the dang thing under the truck. :rofl:
Optimal should be close to vertical over the differential, probably around 5*-10* forward, but there isnt a frame crossmember to attach to there.
I could mount it to the bed, using the old gooseneck hitch mount points..but I'm not sure if the bed metal is strong enough.
I'll figure out something.

 

[Mike L.]

I proposed the pinion snubber qlmost 3 years ago. The idea came from my friend Ron Butler who was Carol Shelby's suspension man. Someone needs to build it.

 

[TheBac]

I proposed the pinion snubber qlmost 3 years ago. The idea came from my friend Ron Butler who was Carol Shelby's suspension man. Someone needs to build it.

Working on it. Takes time...which this time of year I dont have much of.

 

[Mike L.]

I run traction bars that we made, cranked out to preload the springs; torsion bars drops all the way and SkyJacker Nitro 8000 (non adjustable) shocks. I cut consistant 1.6X on worn out BFG ATs with a best of 1.66 and even when I did spin there was no hop and high 1.6 - low 1.7 60's. On the cheater slicks with the same setup I have cut 1.59 with consistant low 1.6X. I really like the way my rear is setup - very little, if any squat and never any hop. Up front I have thought about adding "traction bars" like what some serious FWD cars run. They would go from the frame to the lower A arm as far toward the ball joint as possible - just getting them in there so that you can still turn the wheels would be fun. I plan to get some front shocks with a very slow rebound - I don't like how much the front comes up. I wouldn't want any kind of hard limiting strap - I think something with some give/stretch to it would do better and not get squirelly.

My truck really likes 2nd gear launches and I cut better 60' times in 2nd regardless of the track. I'm going to work on and try the 1st gear launchs more but I've just found that which launch works better just depends on the rest of the truck setup.[/QUOTE

It would be nice if you could post some tech without an infomercial about any of your double throw down invebtions. You got custom trac bars, post a picture. Otherwise we have no idea why your trucks are so magical.

 

[othrgrl]

Where did I say they were magical or that we invented them? I simply said that we made them, and we made them long before Diesel Addiction started. I didn't say they were "the amazing Diesel Addiction traction bars, available no where else - they will cut .5 seconds from your 60 foot, but wait if you buy right now we'll include an air freshner, a $40 value, yours free just pay 19.95 S&H" - I didn't list a price, say that you should buy some from us or anything although now that I pay to I technically could. I was actually trying to encourage others to make their own instead of spending more on Cal-Tracs. I'm sure I've posted pictures up in a thread dedicated to traction bars at one point. They are simple adjustable traction bars going from the plate that bolts under the axle with the U-bolts, up to the frame. Rod ends with opposing threads make them easy to adjust by hand. Anyone that has the tools to cut, drill, and weld can make them.

You need to stop reading into my posts so much and realize that I am usually just trying to help out a fellow DMax owner.

If anyone wants more ideas on traction bars and can't find it in a search let me know and I can give you the measurements

As long as your a supporting vendor...

It is good that you have finally owned up to it and are becoming S/V's at the sites you visit. Then you can say "DA" this or "DA" that all you want....

Just become a supporting vendor and I promise everyone will stop giving you trouble. AND then you can put DA anywhere you want with no worries! Win-win!

ben

Both of whom pay for advertising on other sites...

Glad to see you're gonna be in the same boat...

$500 later and Mike L. still gets offended by the word "we" being in my post once. Ben, what's going on with your promise? LOL

 

[WanaDmaxsub]

Dunno til I try. :rofl: 2"OD square tube in a 2"ID square tube may work. HEY TNRGREENE -- what'd you use for your rear adjustable bumpstops?
Merchant seems to think we could use some sort of jackscrew setup.
The only thing causing me headaches right now is where to mount the dang thing under the truck. :rofl:
Optimal should be close to vertical over the differential, probably around 5*-10* forward, but there isnt a frame crossmember to attach to there.
I could mount it to the bed, using the old gooseneck hitch mount points..but I'm not sure if the bed metal is strong enough.
I'll figure out something.

Transmission crossmember? I'll bet there will be few of these floating around in the very near future.

 

[TheBac]

Where did I say they were magical or that we invented them? I simply said that we made them, and we made them long before Diesel Addiction started. I didn't say they were "the amazing Diesel Addiction traction bars, available no where else - they will cut .5 seconds from your 60 foot, but wait if you buy right now we'll include an air freshner, a $40 value, yours free just pay 19.95 S&H" - I didn't list a price, say that you should buy some from us or anything although now that I pay to I technically could. I was actually trying to encourage others to make their own instead of spending more on Cal-Tracs. I'm sure I've posted pictures up in a thread dedicated to traction bars at one point. They are simple adjustable traction bars going from the plate that bolts under the axle with the U-bolts, up to the frame. Rod ends with opposing threads make them easy to adjust by hand. Anyone that has the tools to cut, drill, and weld can make them.

Did you guys use the OEM front spring perches as your front mounts? If so, these sound exactly like the bars Merchant's been making for a couple years. IIRC, they have to be something like 60" long for a CC/SB, dont they?
They are an excellent idea, but the darn things weigh a ton.

Transmission crossmember? I'll bet there will be few of these floating around in the very near future.

If you mean taking an old Tranny C-member and mounting it above the differential, then that could work. Heck, it would also help stiffen up the rear frame. I was thinking of using a bar similar to one of the gooseneck hitch mounts...they span the frame too.

 

[othrgrl]

Did you guys use the OEM front spring perches as your front mounts? If so, these sound exactly like the bars Merchant's been making for a couple years. IIRC, they have to be something like 60" long for a CC/SB, dont they?
They are an excellent idea, but the darn things weigh a ton.

These were made quickly getting ready for a sled pull (before we were a shop) so the work was really sloppy on the brackets. We just welded tabs off the plate on the axle, bolted in the bar on that end and bolted the tabs for the frame to the bar, then held it up and tack welded the frame tabs, removed the bar and welded it up. Mine are 61" long center to center on my EC SB.

If you want to get technical and keep everything from binding during extreme articulation (something my truck never sees) you would make it the same length center to center as the driveshaft is U-joint to U-joint (mine are) and you would run them parallel to the driveshaft (mine aren't). I have had mine on and preloaded for 8 months straight now and only removed them for towing prior to that. No axle wrap, no wheel hop, and consistant launches - installing 2" drop shackles didn't affect anything with these either.

Found those old pictures

 

[IdahoRob]

The reason I like the pinion snubber over traction bars is; traction bars still force the front end up(what you dont want in a 4x4 launch) and a pinion snubber forces the rear up and the front down.

This is why I believe I cut better 60' times without traction bars than before when I had them.

 

[Mike L.]

The reason I like the pinion snubber over traction bars is; traction bars still force the front end up(what you dont want in a 4x4 launch) and a pinion snubber forces the rear up and the front down.

This is why I believe I cut better 60' times without traction bars than before when I had them.

I agree. I think if you designed a shock absorber into the snubber it might work even better. Proper rear shocks and a snubber has my vote.

 

[slowlmm]

wht does a pinion snubber look like or go? any pictures

 

[RPM Motorsports]

http://www.competitionengineering.com/catalog/CategoryDisplay.asp?CatCode=10006

 

[TheBac]

Dustin, I'm amazed those tabs havent broken off yet.
Merchant used front spring mounts off, I think, a mid-80s GM truck for his bars. You can still buy them new from GM. Triangular plates are welded to bottoms of spring plates like you did.
I borrowed this pic from the Place to illustrate:

The reason I like the pinion snubber over traction bars is; traction bars still force the front end up(what you dont want in a 4x4 launch) and a pinion snubber forces the rear up and the front down.

This is why I believe I cut better 60' times without traction bars than before when I had them.

Thats what I was thinking. Letting the rear raise makes the rear axle want to plant, while at the same time keeping weight on the front and not allowing weight to shift.

I agree. I think if you designed a shock absorber into the snubber it might work even better. Proper rear shocks and a snubber has my vote.

IMO, a snubber needs to be solid. The diff has to be able to smack against it and stay in one plane. The shock would still allow the diff to move up, just at a slower rate than if it were "free". It may also allow the diff to move up past it's optimal plane with the driveshaft.

The fab shop on my route is closed this week for deer hunting. This weekend, after I get the TT closed and covered, I plan on making a model of a snubber out of wood, to see if its possible. Heck, who am I fooling? Anything is possible with enough time and money, right?