a water droplet, traveling in an airstream, has no relative motion to anything. It doesn't even know it is moving. Unlike a river in alaska.
Nitrous basics
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super diesel
<<<< Under Pressure
The very interesting thing was that sheets of frozen condensation (1/4" thick or so) formed instantainiouly on the out side of the intake manifold with the W/M and N2O going in at the same time. One sheet would blow off and another would form instantly and blowoff,,, so on and so forth. Any input on this guys?
Methanol race engines do that at idle. I have a freind that raced dirt track Late Models. At idle the manifold would ice over on the outside. He would have to use a porta heater to get the water up to temp in the pits. It would not heat up by itself at idle.
super diesel
<<<< Under Pressure
It's usually around 900-1200psi (average). From what i understand and have read, it's around -120+ bellow
.Yes. I have watched closely some Top Alcohol dragsters warm up and before launch. There intake (manifold) ices up. However it wasn't like mine did. Mine was forming thick sheets that were blown off from the sheer air flow of the fan. It was wild. I do know what your talking about though John. It is neat to watch. Few have the luck to truly witness this.
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I used to work on a late model dirt track car that did the same. After racing it would come back to the pits with ice on the intake. It all have to do with evaperation.
It's usually around 900-1200psi (average). From what i understand and have read, it's around -120+ bellow
Yes. I have watched closely some Top Alcohol dragsters warm up and before launch. There intake (manifold) ices up. However it wasn't like mine did. Mine was forming thick sheets that were blown off from the sheer air flow of the fan. It was wild. I do know what your talking about though John. It is neat to watch. Few have the luck to truly witness this.
and after air velocity picked up all was just fine Right? Moving molecules are harder to freeze...as the resistance in the intake track creates heat/pressure i assume. It makes since to me
"When one thinks of moving water, one usually imagines starting with something liquid (like water coming out of a pipe). Liquid water, by definition, is above the freezing point of water. To freeze, it has to lose some of its molecular energy and get its temperature down to the freezing point.
As you can imagine, this usually takes some time. Indeed, the time to freeze will be determined by a combination of how much above freezing it starts at and how quickly it can lose heat to the outside environment.
That rate of heat loss will depend on lots of things, including the outside temperature, how much surface area is exposed relative to the volume of the water, whether there is wind outside to help bring fresh cold air to the water's surface, etc.
It is actually a little harder than that, since to get water to freeze you need to cool it to 32 degrees and then still remove a bit more heat energy -- the so-called latent heat of fusion -- to get it to go solid.
Freezing requires that the initially very disordered water molecules get all lined up into a neat, orderly crystal, and if there are any contaminants dissolved in the water (as is often the case outdoors), they will get in the way of ice crystals forming and the freezing point will go down. Motion of the water can also interfere with the formation of crystals, and this is especially the case if the flow is irregular and turbulent, so still colder temperatures may be required."
As you can imagine, this usually takes some time. Indeed, the time to freeze will be determined by a combination of how much above freezing it starts at and how quickly it can lose heat to the outside environment.
That rate of heat loss will depend on lots of things, including the outside temperature, how much surface area is exposed relative to the volume of the water, whether there is wind outside to help bring fresh cold air to the water's surface, etc.
It is actually a little harder than that, since to get water to freeze you need to cool it to 32 degrees and then still remove a bit more heat energy -- the so-called latent heat of fusion -- to get it to go solid.
Freezing requires that the initially very disordered water molecules get all lined up into a neat, orderly crystal, and if there are any contaminants dissolved in the water (as is often the case outdoors), they will get in the way of ice crystals forming and the freezing point will go down. Motion of the water can also interfere with the formation of crystals, and this is especially the case if the flow is irregular and turbulent, so still colder temperatures may be required."
Correct inside is what matters, i really think that based on time and boost and air velocity that it will not freeze, mainly cause the lowest average intake temp before the manifold was well above freezing with more nitrous than most have ever used (2) .125 jets and a 0.060 at the same time.
It's all about average time, temp and pressure.
turbine outlet temps are above 400* IC only cools about 40%-50% at best of that then the nitrous has to cool beond that BEFORE the nitrous is injected, ...
It's possible but not likley. Keep em far apart...
You had better get yourself a better IC if you are only getting 40%-50% efficiency DP. The stock dmax IC is good for 80% for boosts to about 28PSI @2800 RPM. I'm sure KB can give you a nice spreadsheet of inlet/outlet temps based on CFM and ambient temps.
One last time, velocity does not impact the freezing temp of water. But what do I know...
The order you inject water and N2O matters less than on which side of the IC . If the water and N2O is after the IC, you run the risk of condensing the water vapor back into droplets, and maybe even ice. That comes from the better efficiency of the IC with higher inlet temps. You then have two additional processes that will pull significant energy out of the air stream as they evaporate.
One last time, velocity does not impact the freezing temp of water. But what do I know...
The order you inject water and N2O matters less than on which side of the IC . If the water and N2O is after the IC, you run the risk of condensing the water vapor back into droplets, and maybe even ice. That comes from the better efficiency of the IC with higher inlet temps. You then have two additional processes that will pull significant energy out of the air stream as they evaporate.
super diesel
<<<< Under Pressure
and after air velocity picked up all was just fine Right? Moving molecules are harder to freeze...as the resistance in the intake track creates heat/pressure i assume. It makes since to me
No. This is when the ice formed. It was at the higher RPM (high HP range) that this happened. Why is moving molecules harder to freeze? There basic composition hasn't changed has it?
So sorry Michael. I was thinking maybe this was relavent because it could give an idea of what was going on inside if this was witness on the out side where the W/M wasn't even spraying.
IC efficiency is directly linked to outside air temp and the temp of the air being cooled.
Example, 100* day with 500* compressor temp WILL NOT cool 80% i dont care who's IC it is.....air to air is just that!
300* outlet temp on a 30* day maybe, but who sprays anything at that temp?
Im assuming worst case here. 40-50% is average on the cummins,, but again these results are from my own testing i did with joe hellmann back in 07' yes we tested in all condition and every thinkable variation, and never saw any iceing IN the intake track( IF there was the boost sensor would have froze as well causeing a sensor malfuntion), or evidence of such on diesel.......But what do i know im a dodge guy.....:rofl:
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Ever wondered why a moving stream or river dosent freeze untill it's about 0*F outside?
Ice can only occure when the water molecules can slow down enough to align and form ice, IF that molecule stays in motion the ice can not form(moving water) unless temps get well below 32*
I dumped a solution of water and meth on the widshield today 25*F and watched how long it took to evaporte well it took several minutes also there was no separation of the water from the meth, so i think were missing something here as well, maybe the meth bonds to the water? any sugestions?
adding salt or calcium would surely fix the issue or thought of the water freezeing...... but that could be corrosive i presume.
adding salt or calcium would surely fix the issue or thought of the water freezeing...... but that could be corrosive i presume.
What the heck efficiency are you talking about DP? If an IC cools a 500* charge down to 180* on a 100* day, that is 80% efficiency. What were your IC outlet temps? 300*?!! That sucks. I'd spray that too. Probably a lack of air flow over the IC while on the dyno.
And I have measured it many many times myself. I call BS.
You may want to look into supercooled water. I'll still take that apology when you're ready.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwUdrgC1Uyc[/YOUTUBE]
I guess the video isn't showing up right. Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwUdrgC1Uyc
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwUdrgC1Uyc[/YOUTUBE]
I guess the video isn't showing up right. Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwUdrgC1Uyc
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