I dunno i delipped mine we'll see how mine hold up. 19,000 miles so far so good though i didn't take it as far as most do just enough to remove the lip.
Build costs
- Thread starter Redbowties88
- Start date
Although I'm in the group of NOT having a built engine but who knows perhaps one day I might. My only point ,if I need to defend myself,which I don't, is to pose ideas and thoughts through others so the OP can decide and or think about his choices. Everybody should be able to inquire,no?
IMO there is a three of different performance groups.
Ones with under or at 500 HP
Ones that want the middle of the road DD 500/800 HP
Then the all out strictly balls to the walls competition.
I (someday) and like the OP are middle of the road guys. There has to be different classification in a build also. For the middle of the road people how much is really needed. I believe your hinting to that and appreciate your comments as someone whos done it and doing it.
Sure it'd be nice to throw every bell and whistle available at or in your motor but some people have budgets. Those budget minded individuals would like information not thrown under the bus because you aren't spendy enough.
Whatever
Make
I never said anything about making power maybe you want to reword that. I am saying stock pistons are not reliable for more then 700rwhpNo, i plan to make 699hp and keep it right there
There is more too it than just rods and coated pistons (in my eyes) to make the truck reliable at 700+ hp. MAKIN asked a question, we answered it and Relentless is puttin words in our mouths.
Putting words in your mouth are you sue about that, I asked if that was all you were doing. You plan on making only 600-650 according to your past posts so the stock pistons will be fine. Anything over 700rwhp and your wating your time with stock pistons. It just depends on how much power you want. What kind of setup etc. Different setups are putting more stress on motors then other setups (such as a single turbo verse twin turbo, fuel or spray, it all will change the amount of stress your putting on your engine). But this concept is to hard to explain. There is things such as Drive pressure, Compression ratio, RPMs you will be running at, how hot your getting it, towing, etc. Each setup will be different. But if your wanting a TT truck and going to run more then 700hp on stock pistons your just asking for trouple.
Read my above post it all depends on setup and yuor piston does not limit you to power, the pistons limited to only so much strees, it all depends on your setup. But its a steel piston non forged the metal can only with stand so much stress. Cutting/coating it is a waste IMO like stated below. Alll your doing is trying to bandaid it.I believe "if" I was to build a motor I would not de-lip the pistons. I was wondering if others felt the same.
Pretty obvious that other items would be done also I just wanted feed back on pistons. Perhaps the OP can make a decision on what others post also.
IMO a nice reliable streetable DD would be in the 700 HP range. I'll leave the 1000 HP guys that have DEEP pockets in their own league. I'd stick to the middle HP range otherwise your looking for trouble. Really how much are you going to enjoy the power on the street ?
I'd like to hear some more feed back on why your limited to 699 HP with stock coated pistons! There has been NUMEROUS conversation in regards to weaking the piston by removing material. Lets here it,let the truth set you free.
I agree its a waste to mess with them but saying they are junk? They are good pistons for what they were built for (which is not a race piston thats going to hold big hp)
When you say fact is they all break, are you saying all parts or stock parts. Yes everything has its limits but if your running forged pistons/rods compared to stock pistons/rods your odds are better.
Also on a note: everything varries by setup, tuning, dyno numbers, are you running at xxxxrwhp all day or is that your race tune pushing your truck to the max.
Bottom line from the get go is. Every setup will be different and threads like this cant help you IMO. You talk to the engine builder and you guys go over what power, setup, etc you want and he will recommend what you should have. If you dont have the money save for it. Anyone thats going to be building your engine is going to say if you want xxxxhp this is whats its going to cost to be most reliable. Just cause someone ran stock rods for 1000hp means jack shit when compared to your DD setup these guys that have made huge power on stock parts did it knowing they were going to break at some point maybe after one race maybe get lucky and go half a season but they knew it was a matter of time.
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Make
Putting words in your mouth are you sue about that, I asked if that was all you were doing. You plan on making only 600-650 according to your past posts so the stock pistons will be fine. Anything over 700rwhp and your wating your time with stock pistons. It just depends on how much power you want. What kind of setup etc. Different setups are putting more stress on motors then other setups (such as a single turbo verse twin turbo, fuel or spray, it all will change the amount of stress your putting on your engine). But this concept is to hard to explain. There is things such as Drive pressure, Compression ratio, RPMs you will be running at, how hot your getting it, towing, etc. Each setup will be different. But if your wanting a TT truck and going to run more then 700hp on stock pistons your just asking for trouple.
and again. MACKIN asked what we were doin for pistons with rods. i answered that and NEVER said thats all im doin. you said "and thats it, id atleast key the crank but hey thats me". where did i say i wouldnt do that?
If i get enough info for the people i trust to give me that info that delipping the pistons is a really good idea, ill go that route. Didnt say im for sure im jsut throwin the stock pistons back in and hopin for the best.
The balls to the wall builds will break period, I don't care what you put in for parts. When we built the engines for Max'd Out we hoped to get 30 minutes out of a build. That's 30 minutes at WOT. I don't think either of them got that much on them, and when we tore the second one down after we sucked all the junk though it, the bottom end was walking all over the place. Probably a pass or two from scattering all over the track.
You can not drive one of those big ass tunes on the street, if anyone tells you different they don't know what they are talking about. I've driven White Out from the track to town in the huge tune, couldn't hardly touch the throttle due to smoking out the entire road. No way in hell you could ever get on it, especially in 2 wheel drive.
The smaller mid hp tunes, 500-750 hp are flat fun to drive. Not so much stress on the truck, will still chit and get big time and hopefully they will let the motor live a long time. When you are cruising down the road say 65mph what are you really making for power? 100hp?
These huge hp builds for anything other than a totally dedicated race or pulling truck are stupid IMHO. I'm one of the most stupid since I done it 3 times and the first two have been rebuilt again. If you want to have a nice truck, do the rods, whatever for the pistons, a little head work, studs and a 30 or 40 over set of injectors and whatever you need for a lift pump and cp setup to fuel them properly, whatever you want for air be it a larger single, nice set of mid size twins or squeeze and call it good.
You'll be happy and your ride should last a good while. I personally would do twins but to each their own.
You can not drive one of those big ass tunes on the street, if anyone tells you different they don't know what they are talking about. I've driven White Out from the track to town in the huge tune, couldn't hardly touch the throttle due to smoking out the entire road. No way in hell you could ever get on it, especially in 2 wheel drive.
The smaller mid hp tunes, 500-750 hp are flat fun to drive. Not so much stress on the truck, will still chit and get big time and hopefully they will let the motor live a long time. When you are cruising down the road say 65mph what are you really making for power? 100hp?
These huge hp builds for anything other than a totally dedicated race or pulling truck are stupid IMHO. I'm one of the most stupid since I done it 3 times and the first two have been rebuilt again. If you want to have a nice truck, do the rods, whatever for the pistons, a little head work, studs and a 30 or 40 over set of injectors and whatever you need for a lift pump and cp setup to fuel them properly, whatever you want for air be it a larger single, nice set of mid size twins or squeeze and call it good.
You'll be happy and your ride should last a good while. I personally would do twins but to each their own.
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As usual Subman gets it.
Thats what I'm saying so when 'the big boys' come circling the wagon when all you want is a nice hopefully a longevity fun to drive 700 HP'ish truck you don't have to get crazy.
IMO Trent gets it too.
I agree you aren't going to drive a 1000HP truck around unless you can de-tune the crap out of it. In addition like you said competing with this truck at those levels and then expect to tow your RV or commute back and forth to work just isn't going to happen.
My whole point getting involved is to show you can build with a budget, sometimes less is more you don't have to do it all or have it all. Look at Tom Bacon he's a great example.
Thats what I'm saying so when 'the big boys' come circling the wagon when all you want is a nice hopefully a longevity fun to drive 700 HP'ish truck you don't have to get crazy.
IMO Trent gets it too.
I agree you aren't going to drive a 1000HP truck around unless you can de-tune the crap out of it. In addition like you said competing with this truck at those levels and then expect to tow your RV or commute back and forth to work just isn't going to happen.
My whole point getting involved is to show you can build with a budget, sometimes less is more you don't have to do it all or have it all. Look at Tom Bacon he's a great example.
Theres alot of good info in this long thread and alot of bs. We did the the whole "throw everything in it" build. I have now idea how much hp it makes and really don't care. Bottom line is he is happy, you can switch tunes from race to tow to dd, has 35,000 on it and he tows pump jacks for 500-600 miles sometimes 3-4 days a week. he said out of all his hotrods he likes the truck the most. It has the SoCal stroker kit, twins (42magand a 55), duel fuelers, lbz cp3 in the valley, 70% over injectors, ric's headers and up pipes, 5" all the way out the back sc stg 4 (soon to be a mike L piece)Socal stg 2 heads, headstuds, main studs, billet main caps, billet inj hold downs, banks intercooler, Socal cam, balancer etc...etc...
He drives this thing everyday, 1 hour to 20 hours, aside from a bad oil cooler causing blown hd gaskets he has no troubles and he is never easy on this thing.
No, not most of us could ever afford to do what he has done, but my point is, the pistons we used from socal seem to be working great as with everything else. You cannot compromise quality in a build or it will let you down. Figure out where you want to be, save the $$$ for it and enjoy it. Quit telling everyone their build won't work, or is to much $$ or in some cases not enough money. And, imo, if you own your engine then you already have used parts, why would you buy more used parts? There are simple guidlines to maing the dmax stronger internally without breaking the bank. Everybody knows stock rods only survive to a certain point, other then that everything else has yet to be proven 100% reliable, keying everything is a must, thats also been proven and is just a step everyone usually takes without thinking about it. Is a $6000 engine better then a $60,000 engine? hasen't been proven yet so who knows. Just figure out what you want, get with a good machine shop/mechanic and set some goals, get some prices and see if you can afford what you want. HP is only a number you get on a dyno. Thrills and loss of breath is what you get from actually seat-of-the pants driving.
have more but must get back to work
He drives this thing everyday, 1 hour to 20 hours, aside from a bad oil cooler causing blown hd gaskets he has no troubles and he is never easy on this thing.
No, not most of us could ever afford to do what he has done, but my point is, the pistons we used from socal seem to be working great as with everything else. You cannot compromise quality in a build or it will let you down. Figure out where you want to be, save the $$$ for it and enjoy it. Quit telling everyone their build won't work, or is to much $$ or in some cases not enough money. And, imo, if you own your engine then you already have used parts, why would you buy more used parts? There are simple guidlines to maing the dmax stronger internally without breaking the bank. Everybody knows stock rods only survive to a certain point, other then that everything else has yet to be proven 100% reliable, keying everything is a must, thats also been proven and is just a step everyone usually takes without thinking about it. Is a $6000 engine better then a $60,000 engine? hasen't been proven yet so who knows. Just figure out what you want, get with a good machine shop/mechanic and set some goals, get some prices and see if you can afford what you want. HP is only a number you get on a dyno. Thrills and loss of breath is what you get from actually seat-of-the pants driving.
have more but must get back to work
Thats a one of a kind compared to other trucks you can easy have a 1000hp+ truck and DD it and be happy and reliable. Am I saying 1000hp on fuel only street tune no :happy2:
Ya with these '1000 HP' trucks are you competing or just playing on the street? Big difference IMO
As stated what are you using for HP running down the highway at 65 MPH racking up miles? Also how much are you going to use towing safely?
IMO there is a big difference in use able HP and when and how your using it. Next thing your going to say is your getting 28 MPG.
My truck is at 500 RWHP give or take 99% of the time I could live with stock RWHP under 99% of driving capabilities. Lets not kid ourselves here. No way no how is 'he isn't easy on it' like at the drag strip.
As stated what are you using for HP running down the highway at 65 MPH racking up miles? Also how much are you going to use towing safely?
IMO there is a big difference in use able HP and when and how your using it. Next thing your going to say is your getting 28 MPG.
My truck is at 500 RWHP give or take 99% of the time I could live with stock RWHP under 99% of driving capabilities. Lets not kid ourselves here. No way no how is 'he isn't easy on it' like at the drag strip.
personally i rarely tow any more if any at all just very light loads.
my trucks a racer, street and strip. however i dont plan on setting any records but a 10.xx would be nice to have under the belt one day.
race weight as sits is 6350...with my fat ass in it. so i think there is hope
my trucks a racer, street and strip. however i dont plan on setting any records but a 10.xx would be nice to have under the belt one day.
race weight as sits is 6350...with my fat ass in it. so i think there is hope
Your right, in some case's its worse. At the strip you have the 1/8 or 1/4 and thats it, you have to shut down, on the street or "backroads" the person may not let off for alot longer say 1 to 1 1/2 miles
and boom, there goes the headgaskets:thumb: or worse. Personally i think people are actually harder on their dd then they are at the track, they race, let them cool and race some more, on the street its till whoever finally has had enough. just my op from recent expirences with a few dmaxs locally. Either way, to the op its still going to be what you expect from your truck when its done as to what you put in it and how much you have to spend to get there.
You are going to have to decipher this for me?
What exactly are you trying to say?