I know what he thought of his build when he built it, well, I should say I read the threads....all of them, several times.
Build costs
- Thread starter Redbowties88
- Start date
I know what he thought of his build when he built it, well, I should say I read the threads....all of them, several times.
It was never meant to say I offered it and if people thought that I am glad you pointed it out as I was un aware of that notion , just that I still believe it is feasible if a guy wants to take the risk and try it themselves rather than stay home and not do it at all . And I didnt take it as an atack Tim , hence my response simply clarifying mis-conceptions.
I completely understand what your saying Tim , but you need to realize , I don't build engines other than my own , I don't spec my customers builds they do , If a motor I have done doesn't get main studs its because the end user chose that, I don't make that call , the customer does base on the power level they chose and there own personal opinion.
I didnt build the engine I did because I thought it was going to be enough , I had a choice either race with what I could afford or stay home . and in the end even if i spent 10k and did everything in the short block , my piston still would have failed @ 1100 + hp , I shared what I did knowing there would be scrutiny , and shared the results, people can make there own conclusions . and any one who thinks I would build the same engine for a customer better call some one else , as I dont build engines for any one but myself . why dont you wait to see what I run this year before you make speculation of what I think is needed or not , now that I can actually build it to what I think is needed for that power level ? no one has ever asked me what I would have done budget aside
On the cost ................... I never posted a cost in this thread , James did . I posted a list to defend myself regarding his quote for the services he was wanting and my exact words to him were " I can not garrentee you a cost on machine work until it has been broken down and every piece inspected by the machine shop" , hince the possibility of +1k $ and I only posted it because I was forced to defend myself when that came under scrutiny , nothing more , I didn't post the price of a single service, my customer pays what the machining cost + my surcharge for handling the motor , taking it to machine , ect . I make my money on assembling the long block ( extra ) remove / re-install ( extra ) , tuning , turbo kit , ect . My machine shop will not assemble an engine done improperly , as they are the ones at risk not me. .
I'm not an expert Trent, you know this and I know it...most of those who have been around the forums the last 4 years know it. I am not and did not prescribe what you should build, please don't take it that way, I was referring to previous comments by Dmitri that I agree with. Since this thread is/was about Redbowtie's motor and what he should or shouldn't try to get away with, I have given my learning experience as something to think about, as did you. If you choose to give out specs etc. of a build or builds you are doing for customers, that's your perogative. You seem to have taken what I said to you more for what it was than some others here, it may not be worth much, but I also wasn't just speaking for myself. I was speaking in the interest of the community as a whole.
again, that is my fear, that you say it is feasible......I have seriously thought about doing the same as Matt Handwork and just running the piss out of a stock motor for a season and buying another each season....because that is feasible too. but for the average guy looking for a way to hold a little more power, they dont want to replace motors every season, if not more often. if something lets go in a budget build, chances are it'll junk the rest of it (save for maybe the rods if they are aftermarket). as you said, its a chance that the customer takes, but when it is recommended thread after thread after thread that it can be done...the customer starts to become ever so optimistic that they have good enough luck to do it.
I know , that notion is dangerous , its just hard , I saw the motor after , know what it was put through , and if the piston hadn't let go it was in no danger if breaking , that is tough to take out of your mind when you have done it and know all the data , but also dont want to mis lead people either , and to be honest I wish no one an ill experience and just dont know how not to , I know what I see with my own eyes , I know what I did and know in what ways it succeeded and failed , its hard to not have that opinion when i have that info , but i dont want to hurt any one else either , my hope was the info from my truck would help this community not hurt it, I have shared alot of info over the years , all with vey good intentions, I have no clue if I should sensor my motor experience or not , I know its not popular but I posted the truth , and the pictures of the whole engine after , and thought I never expresed that there wasnt risk associated with it but don't want to mis-lead any one so not sure what is best .................
If it was up to any one of us to decide what was best, I wouldn't read this board. The reason this board is so good is because there is LESS censorship than some other boards. I know I have thanked you for posting your findings - failures and successes- and I meant it. I have and will continue to do the same. In closing, I will refer back to my original post in this thread where I said that I thought one type of build may be alright for one truck and user, but may not be best for another. I am going out on a limb and assuming that there could be details about your truck (lightweight, race-only) that help the drivetrain live at that power. Hence the reason you lightened it up. IF it was the same drivetrain but in a 8000lb pull truck, would it live as long? would there have been other failure points? My money would say yes.
That's really my only point in this thread. Maybe I am wrong.
That's really my only point in this thread. Maybe I am wrong.
Simply put, do what YOU feel is necessary for YOUR engine. There is enough information out there to form a reasonably educated opinion on what is and isn't needed. Even then, it's still a decision based on what's best for YOU and your budget. Not anyone else. You'll never make everyone 100% agree with the parts you put in YOUR engine. Even if you dump a wheelbarrow full of cash at it. There will still be people saying you wasted money.
I want to say thanks to Pat, Simon, Trent, and all the other guys who share their builds, successes, and failures. So other guys can use their experiences to do what they think is right. I'm a nobody in this world so my $.02 aren't worth much, just get a bit tired of people telling everyone else what they are doing isn't right and how they would do it so much better or different. It definitely lowers the amount of tech a person is willing to share if every time they share, they get nothing but negative comments. (Directed at no one in particular, just an observation from some of the things I've seen on the sites I visit lately. It is the off season though.)
I want to say thanks to Pat, Simon, Trent, and all the other guys who share their builds, successes, and failures. So other guys can use their experiences to do what they think is right. I'm a nobody in this world so my $.02 aren't worth much, just get a bit tired of people telling everyone else what they are doing isn't right and how they would do it so much better or different. It definitely lowers the amount of tech a person is willing to share if every time they share, they get nothing but negative comments. (Directed at no one in particular, just an observation from some of the things I've seen on the sites I visit lately. It is the off season though.)
That's all I did in my motor minus the coating. 3 years and running strong(knock on wood) runs 10's every time out at 7200+ lbs. Personally I think alot of guys put stuff in their motors that aren't needed and just add expense.
i feel kinda stupid posting this thread but i'm trying to do everything i can to make this the last time i need to pull my motor. can you guys help me discover all the necessary costs? i'm sure there''s stuff i'm overlooking.
Thanks.
Howards rods - $2850
cutting and coating (or maybe just coating) my spare set of slugs - $600-800.
merchant HG kit with studs - $1000
Balancing rotating assembly + keyed crank/cam - $600ish?
Head resurfacing $100
Bearings - no idea help me out on this.
Rings - no idea on this either. will i need new ones?
Specialty tools ill need - same as above
Ok in addition to the stuff in red i'm sure there are things i've yet to even think of. help please
It seems like half the the people in this thread are talking about motors holding 1000+ and the rest are talking about 650-750. If you know you wont ever have the money to build and maintain a consistent 1000+ setup and are only shooting for a reliable 750 maybe 800 tops why would you build part of the setup to hold over 1000. The people saying that this "budget" mild build wont hold make valid points about building an engine but it seems like they all have the mindset of running in the 9's and not everybody needs or wants that. Redbowtie and chevy1925 seem to want more middle of the road power levels but don't want to worry about rods failing. And with chevy1925's case dealing with trent you guys have to remember that he is the customer and knows what his wants, needs, and goals are more than you do so you cant tell him that he needs x part at x cost just because you feel your 1200 hp motor needs it. Did you ever read enough of this thread to see he only wants 650? I thought thats what I read. And not too ling ago people always said stock rods cant go over 500 for any amount of time, and hg's with stock bolts will blow at 40 psi but it seems recently that a good number of trucks are proving this wrong as stock motors are living longer over 500. Basically theres more than one way to skin a cat and maybe this way will work up to a certain power level. For a some it seems to already work. When I start having issues with my stock motor it will only get rods, headstuds, balance, delipped pistons, keys, and replace or repair any part that is too worn. I refuse to replace parts just because it will fail at some unknown time in the future or someone had it fail once. All parts new and used WILL fail at some point. Something I learned as a diesel tech working on class 8 trucks is theres a big difference between a part that will fail next week and a part that will fail in 30,000-40,000 miles. Replacing good used parts just isn't cost effective in most situations. Like I said not everybody wants 1000+ hp.
You will absolutely need rods before you hit 750hp.
Everything else is still in limbo. Rods only builds have done just about as well as max effort engines have in terms of lifespan.
Anyone got steel pistons yet?
Everything else is still in limbo. Rods only builds have done just about as well as max effort engines have in terms of lifespan.
Anyone got steel pistons yet?
Is that rwhp or at the fly wheel?
Thanks
Some people say anything over 600hp and you need rods others say your good to 700hp? Whats your guys personal experience not opinion but actual experience is all I am asking. I am talking LB7 rods BTW.
Thanks:thumb:
The actual failure point is about 1250ftlbs best I can tell.
But it's not a concrete line. Some people have bent them at 600rwhp, some survive at 650rwhp. I didn't see a failure until I hit 750, but then again, my torque was low relative to many other guys. The higher you rev, the lower your torque.
If you could make peak HP at 5000rpm, you'd probably be safe with stock rods at 750rwhp.
But it's not a concrete line. Some people have bent them at 600rwhp, some survive at 650rwhp. I didn't see a failure until I hit 750, but then again, my torque was low relative to many other guys. The higher you rev, the lower your torque.
If you could make peak HP at 5000rpm, you'd probably be safe with stock rods at 750rwhp.
LB7 rods -- ~575rwhp. Been there. Pat is right about everything, but didnt say that tuning plays a huge role. Bring torque in too early, and your rods wont like it.
Thanks
You mind me asking what set up that was..as far as fuel only or spray and what turbo?
also depends on # of passes you expect it to hold, i got 812 on stock LB7 rods.............................................................. , but only lasted 2 dyno runs and 1 - 1/4 mile pass :spit:
Thanks
You mind me asking what set up that was..as far as fuel only or spray and what turbo?
That was a stock LB7/turbo with intake, exhaust, lift pump, "12.40" tune, modded regulator and turbo inlet....and also the reason I later rebuilt it. :rofl: (I can laugh about it now)