Are things ever going to get better?

[GMC_2002_Dmax]

Yeah toyota is non union, push it out and worry about quality later. The last big recall program was there trucks rotting apart and company buying back because they're unsafe. And now very soon. a 4 "MILLION" car recall due to faulty accererators. Dealer in my area is puttin an addition with 8 new bays to keep up. I know this because I know the service mngr and applied for a job.

Hey we can't help that the steel supplier from China sells Toyota suck-ass steel. The non-union employees just assemble the crap, that is a weak argument for Toyota steel quality......but nice try anyway. Think of all the jobs Toyota is creating by selling poorly made trucks........:happy2:

ever notice a non union construction site? seems to be mostly illegals working for peanuts, and the contractor filling his pockets. Or crane and scaffold accidents that hurt or kill people.

I notice that too, that's our Democrat Party ever wanting to enable another dependent class of ignorant people to vote for them. That same political party that sucks up to Unions all the time is the same party that hires those illegals to do work on their homes and mow the grass in their multimillion dollar estates. Go JOSE !!!!!!!!!

:thumb:

 

[Rhall]

You ever have to strike ?? You ever been told to slow down your working too fast, you ever been told by your Union who you need to vote for, We have a Union State Road Crew in CT, the joke is what it Big, Orange, and sleeps six...........A state road truck............:rofl:

Ever go to a Motor Vehicle, ever go to a State Office, ever go anywhere that is run by a Union, the people are rude, lazy and seriously arrogant for the most part. Want to know why, because it's so hard to get rid of them because of the Union.

Sorry, i didnt make myself clear on some of that stuff. When i say NonUnion jobs dont require drug tests, im referring to big contractors that hire mostly non union labor. Take JE Dunn for example, they hire all union trades to come on the job, JE Dunn requires everyone for every company to to take a piss test before they walk on, So Elevator guys, plumbers, pipe fitters, electricians, laborers, everyone Drops piss for Je Dunn. This is not the companys giving the test its the contractor.

Now a smaller contractor like Straub, they hire mostly non-union trades to come work, except for us, due to the lack of non union elevator constructors. They dont require any piss test, nor do they have safety policies.

I get paid the same no matter what job im on, i can go to a smaller mostly non union jobsite, but im still union, i get paid the same.

When i said the non union companys dont buy the safety gear, i mean non union elevator companys, not contractors. The union cant force anything on non union companys.


As far as being told to slow down, i think thats where people put all unions into one catagory. Thats where i say not all unions have the same motives. Thats is un heard of in the Union Construction Industy, nobody tells anybody their working too fast unless they are doing something unsafely. Instead they move up the finish dates on everyone, then everybodys working shift work/ overtime.

Our Union does RECCOMEND who to vote for, as all of them do. Thats not only unions that do that, that is associations, doctors, nurses, tradesman, and many others, everybody is going to campaign who they think will do them best, just as you would campaign who would do your company/personal life best.

I have never been on strike, the north amercan contract of the Elevators union hasnt been on strike since the 70's. New York has their own contract, and they went on strike in 05, because the companys were trying to outsource their hoisting and rigging to non elevator constructors. You might say here that the union is holding back the companys from speeding the process up and saving money. That is where you would be incorrect, its more than taking work away, the fact is if your hoisting someone elses equipment, most likely you wont be as careful with it, or put it in the right place. We have lots of tight clearances, and everything has to be straight, plumb, and square. When one thing gets bent, or broke, it can effect a lot of things, especially in New york, when you start at the bottom and a half a year later your 200 stories up. The point is, when unions strike, its not always greed, sometimes its for everyones good interest. On another note, they didnt actually strike, the companys didnt agree, and locked them out from work. Thats not considered a strike, cause the Union had already signed the contract, but still kept the hoisting and rigging as their work. People always assume its the union striking, which is not always the case. It only lasted around a month or so, cause i guess New Yorkers got tired of taking the staires.

 

[Vrabel]

Lets see, a non union made Land Cruiser 13 mpg msrp $65970. Tundra-starting msrp $23455 and 15/19 mpg. So these "cheaper" made "NON" union vehicles are better how? Worse on fuel, Cost more. But the up side is the workers were paid alot less with a shitty benifit package to make it. So you can rest assure the price you pay goes to corparate. odds are for the next big recall expense.

 

[Rhall]

Hey we can't help that the steel supplier from China sells Toyota suck-ass steel. The non-union employees just assemble the crap, that is a weak argument for Toyota steel quality......but nice try anyway. Think of all the jobs Toyota is creating by selling poorly made trucks........:happy2:



I notice that too, that's our Democrat Party ever wanting to enable another dependent class of ignorant people to vote for them. That same political party that sucks up to Unions all the time is the same party that hires those illegals to do work on their homes and mow the grass in their multimillion dollar estates. Go JOSE !!!!!!!!!

:thumb:

Sorry no matter how much you argue that one it makes no sence. All unions require you to be an american citizen.
Not all non union outfits do, in fact, most rather you not. Most Non Union companys are Republican. I dont care which way your political door swings, but now your talking circles.

 

[Rhall]

I have some friends that work for Toyota at a west coast parts distribution center. They make $27 to pull small parts from a shelf and put them in boxes. I love my friends, but I think they are overpaid for that. Funny part is they think so too. All the other area warehousing pays $15-$20 max. Yes Toyota is really good at the "lets not let anyone know we are having problems game".

Hmm, thats more than GM. Once again more proof the UAW is NOT killing gm.:thumb:

 

[Rhall]

And they arent UAW

EXACTLY! The UAW is just a bs scape goat, for poor upper management and ceos, and people being the media queens they are buy it all. The fact is, if unions were destroying this county and its business' ALL union companys would be failing, not just a handful. But thats not the case, and never will be. What killed this country is a lot of things. Political parties,trearing this country into two pieces, credit, and Free trade, are just a few of the many...many. You guys can Bash unions all you want, and pray for them to be banished, but you might as well not waste your time, because as long as theres big construction jobs to be put in, there will be Unions, because thats the only way they will be put in safely, efficiently, and last but not least with a good quality finish. It all goes back to United We Stand. Unions work together to get it done right.:thumb:

 

[GMC_2002_Dmax]

Sorry no matter how much you argue that one it makes no sence. All unions require you to be an american citizen.
Not all non union outfits do, in fact, most rather you not. Most Non Union companys are Republican. I dont care which way your political door swings, but now your talking circles.

You are correct, most companies that are owned by individuals are owned by Republicans. Most of the time the reasons that companies resist Unions is so that they can control who gets hired/fired based on performance. Companies need to adapt to the free market, companies know that not all jobs are equal and should be paid at different rates based on the difficulty or skill sets required. Unions require a one size fits all pay rate, that might seem good in theory but in the real world it does not work.

You also cannot afford to keep paying people who retire a wage/benefit package comparable to what they were earning when they were working, it bankrupts companies and has brought many to their knees.

I don't think we'll ever agree on this one Ryan, you look at it from the UNION side and I look at it from a free market/capitalism side and they just are not ever going to be something that we can agree on.

So I guess we'll have to agree to dis-agree as I see no end in site for this conversation we are having. Hopefully you will someday be a small business owner and then maybe you will have a need to hire workers, then you can truly understand the cost of doing business.

:thumb:

 

[GMC_2002_Dmax]

Lets see, a non union made Land Cruiser 13 mpg msrp $65970. Tundra-starting msrp $23455 and 15/19 mpg. So these "cheaper" made "NON" union vehicles are better how? Worse on fuel, Cost more. But the up side is the workers were paid alot less with a shitty benifit package to make it. So you can rest assure the price you pay goes to corparate. odds are for the next big recall expense.

I guess I have to ask you, since when is it any companies responsibility to give their employees a generous wage and benefit package ??

Why do companies have to provide anyone with anything other than a job ??

I don't care if the car is a POS or not, assembly line workers put them together, if the sum of the parts and the design sucks than a UNION or NON-UNION ASSEMBLY LINE will not make a dam bit of difference.

Corporations are in business to provide a product or service and make a profit so they can expand their business, hire additional workers and pay a dividend to shareholders who risked their capital by buying stocks which allows the company to do all those things.

Didn't you pay attention in school in economics class ??? It is a simple concept that I thought was still taught in school ??

 

[mytmousemalibu]

That is what America used to be full of good wholesome, hard working people... There are so many immigrants taking FULL advantage of the system. I have a buddy who is black he has friends that have said "Did you hear homeboy? Na, bro what? Obama said we can sell drugs and its going to be made legal... No s**t dog? No s**t. My dad works his ass off everyday as do i it is utterly disgusting to see what this country has become. We can't take care of our own homeless people but we can take care of illegal immigrants??? This country has become so ass backwards it is sad. This Socialized medicine that the Obama Administration has proposed is one of the most flawed proposals to date... it is obvious the Medical System in America needs changing but it has also been proved that Socialized Medicine is flawed. Right now we need to get America back on track not back further in debt

Amen buddy!

 

[TheBac]

Tony.....we get it. You hate unions. Enough already. Unions didnt do all this to America. Our government did....and by voting for the weasels, we did.

 

[mytmousemalibu]

As a tech at an independant BMW repair shop, only one BMW dealer thats not got a great reputation and little from other competition, we, very thankfully, are doing pretty good, like said it started tapering off at the end of 07 but were still busy. Id say, everyone around here decided that it was time to find an alternative to dealership repair and saw the light. I hope were all starting to round the bend to recovery. We still need massive drastic changes to get us all back on the ball. IMO, our current huge embaressing failure of a Pres. needs to go, and the rest of liberal congress:thumb: Thats IMO though.

 

[Vrabel]

I guess I have to ask you, since when is it any companies responsibility to give their employees a generous wage and benefit package ??

Why do companies have to provide anyone with anything other than a job ??

I don't care if the car is a POS or not, assembly line workers put them together, if the sum of the parts and the design sucks than a UNION or NON-UNION ASSEMBLY LINE will not make a dam bit of difference.

Corporations are in business to provide a product or service and make a profit so they can expand their business, hire additional workers and pay a dividend to shareholders who risked their capital by buying stocks which allows the company to do all those things.

Didn't you pay attention in school in economics class ??? It is a simple concept that I thought was still taught in school ??

your right! back in the day you would work alot mor than 40hr shifts at straight time. no health benefits. no maternity. just show up as a group and a guy would point and say you could work today. and who needs organized labor? screw the worker! Because that economics major can replace you tomorrow. Hell, it works in china, mexico, and third world countries. so why not practice it here? Are you a business owner? where? cause without all that unneeded overhead, you must be a billionair! And you didnt get my point! your knocking the UAW for making cars exspensive, when the non union "cheap"car costs more.

 

[LBZ]

......... This Socialized medicine that the Obama Administration has proposed is one of the most flawed proposals to date... it is obvious the Medical System in America needs changing but it has also been proved that Socialized Medicine is flawed. Right now we need to get America back on track not back further in debt

It's not that bad. Sure there are cases where procedures get backed up and you have no choice but to wait your turn if the operation isn't critical, but it's better than a ridiculous bill just to get in sooner. Or a bill because your PRIVATE insurance company decided it didn't want to cover you for an emergency treatment.

It's the law in Canada that says everyone must have and pay the government for medical coverage. If you let it lapse because you have no income and don't qualify for EI or Welfare, then eventually you will have to pay up whether it be partial wage garnishment or witholding tax returns, gst cheques, etc, or just pay up front the cost to get caught up. At no time will you be denied medical attention in the event of an emergency at any hospital though, that's the law!!

Sure it costs the goverment money, and in turn that gets recouped in the form of higher taxes for the citizens, but it also sets a standard of care that is mandated country wide no matter if you are poor or rich, and also makes the quality of life that much better.

 

[bullfrogjohnson]

It's not that bad. Sure there are cases where procedures get backed up and you have no choice but to wait your turn if the operation isn't critical, but it's better than a ridiculous bill just to get in sooner. Or a bill because your PRIVATE insurance company decided it didn't want to cover you for an emergency treatment.

It's the law in Canada that says everyone must have and pay the government for medical coverage. If you let it lapse because you have no income and don't qualify for EI or Welfare, then eventually you will have to pay up whether it be partial wage garnishment or witholding tax returns, gst cheques, etc, or just pay up front the cost to get caught up. At no time will you be denied medical attention in the event of an emergency at any hospital though, that's the law!!

Sure it costs the goverment money, and in turn that gets recouped in the form of higher taxes for the citizens, but it also sets a standard of care that is mandated country wide no matter if you are poor or rich, and also makes the quality of life that much better.

I would live in Canada if it wasn't so damn cold!!!!

 

[FMOS]

I'm down with LBZ on this one.

Bullfrog - after a few weeks of -50 temps you'll wonder how you ever went without it. Not to mention that -10 will feel like t-shirt and shorts weather!

 

[Randy5.0]

Tony.....we get it. You hate unions. Enough already. Unions didnt do all this to America. Our government did....and by voting for the weasels, we did.

For the love of Pete! I totally agree!:thumb:

 

[Bluemax]

Take JE Dunn for example, they hire all union trades to come on the job, JE Dunn requires everyone for every company to to take a piss test before they walk on, So Elevator guys, plumbers, pipe fitters, electricians, laborers, everyone Drops piss for Je Dunn. This is not the companys giving the test its the contractor.

Now a smaller contractor like Straub, they hire mostly non-union trades to come work, except for us, due to the lack of non union elevator constructors. They dont require any piss test, nor do they have safety policies.

I'm not starting anything here Rob, just got to get it out...

Contrary to what they want people to think JE Dunn does hire non union and don't make them piss in the cup. I've worked for Dunn more than a hand full of times in the last couple of years and was never told to piss. I even asked if I needed to and was told in exact words "no we're not worried about that shit."

I also did some work for Straub and was required to attend a safety meeting with the GC's guy and sign off on all of their safety regs before unloading the first piece of equipment.


But I will absolutely give you that Straub hires some of the most IGNORANT, INCOMPETENT, and just plain STUPID SOBs that ever set foot on a construction site. They hire contractors that call the union hall for laborers because their not allowed to have operators and then throw them into hoes, skid steers, dozers, and whatever else they have on site. The last job we were on for them they called us because their cont. screw up royally and they asked if we'd come clean it up and finish it. The first thing I saw as I pulled up to unload the hoe was a guy running a track hoe loading an end dump while a f***ing idiot was riding on it trying to fuel it up with 5gal cans as he was loading....WTF is that???
I was embarrassed to be on the site for fear of being associated with that outfit. After a couple days of stupid crap like that happening and a few people going to the hospital we pulled all our trucks and equipment off site till they were removed from the property and we could safely work. Last time I'll be on a site with any of their contractors ever again. :thumb:




And for whoever referred to people like me as unorganized labor, getting worked 20hrs a day with no compensation, and no benefits of any kind and that anybody off the street could walk in and replace me tomorrow.... Are you off your freaking rocker? Do you honestly think that's how non union companies are??? Seriously??? I'm non union and and am absolutely positive I'll have a job tomorrow, next week, next year and as long as I choose to work there. And the reason is I've proven my worth many times over by doing just that...my job and I do it well... so HELL NO I don't have to worry about being replaced by some idiot off the street OR because a job across town was finished yesterday and their is now a black guy, mexican, female, or some other member of a minority out of work and they feel they're being discriminated against because I'm working today and they aren't. And I'm quite sure my pay is right up there with any other union operator because I've proven I'm worth the money. I also trust my boss and co workers my life with all kinds of dangerous equipment all day every day and I don't have to hear that they are members of a union to do that. Matter of fact I believe I have a huge advantage there because I don't have to learn the habits different laborers or operators every other day because they find a job closer to home or don't like taking orders from "so and so" the foreman over there. I also like that I don't have to lock my truck and take my keys when I get to the shop and park in the morning.

We are equipped with more than enough safety gear for any site we've ever been on. My boss makes absolutely sure of that before we set foot on site.
I love my job and couldn't pick a better group of people to work with, and I say "with" because my boss tells people I don't work FOR him, I work WITH him because he doesn't even have to be there when I do a job. and respect like that keeps me a loyal employee to him and him alone.
I have called him before and told him I couldn't make it to work today because I had sand in my vagina....After he stopped chocking and laughing at me and pulling back onto the road he said ok guess I'll see you tomorrow if you get that taken care of....

Tell me how the operators union could do me any better than any of that?


I don't dog you guys or anyone else for being in a union until being provoked by an off the wall comment like that, so why don't you guys have the common courtesy to do the same for me while I choose to be non union?

 

[moore428]

Sorry no matter how much you argue that one it makes no sence. All unions require you to be an american citizen.
Not all non union outfits do, in fact, most rather you not. Most Non Union companys are Republican. I dont care which way your political door swings, but now your talking circles.

All employers are barred from knowingly employing illegals. No exceptions.

And as for GM and who was responsible, I think everyone involved are to blame for every bit of the stupidity. The unions for demanding it, the management for agreeing to it and passing it on to the customers.

 

[TeaBagger2006]

But I will absolutely give you that Straub hires some of the most IGNORANT, INCOMPETENT, and just plain STUPID SOBs that ever set foot on a construction site. They hire contractors that call the union hall for laborers because their not allowed to have operators and then throw them into hoes, skid steers, dozers, and whatever else they have on site. The last job we were on for them they called us because their cont. screw up royally and they asked if we'd come clean it up and finish it. The first thing I saw as I pulled up to unload the hoe was a guy running a track hoe loading an end dump while a f***ing idiot was riding on it trying to fuel it up with 5gal cans as he was loading....WTF is that???
I was embarrassed to be on the site for fear of being associated with that outfit. After a couple days of stupid crap like that happening and a few people going to the hospital we pulled all our trucks and equipment off site till they were removed from the property and we could safely work. Last time I'll be on a site with any of their contractors ever again. :thumb:




And for whoever referred to people like me as unorganized labor, getting worked 20hrs a day with no compensation, and no benefits of any kind and that anybody off the street could walk in and replace me tomorrow.... Are you off your freaking rocker? Do you honestly think that's how non union companies are??? Seriously??? I'm non union and and am absolutely positive I'll have a job tomorrow, next week, next year and as long as I choose to work there. And the reason is I've proven my worth many times over by doing just that...my job and I do it well... so HELL NO I don't have to worry about being replaced by some idiot off the street OR because a job across town was finished yesterday and their is now a black guy, mexican, female, or some other member of a minority out of work and they feel they're being discriminated against because I'm working today and they aren't. And I'm quite sure my pay is right up there with any other union operator because I've proven I'm worth the money. I also trust my boss and co workers my life with all kinds of dangerous equipment all day every day and I don't have to hear that they are members of a union to do that. Matter of fact I believe I have a huge advantage there because I don't have to learn the habits different laborers or operators every other day because they find a job closer to home or don't like taking orders from "so and so" the foreman over there. I also like that I don't have to lock my truck and take my keys when I get to the shop and park in the morning.

We are equipped with more than enough safety gear for any site we've ever been on. My boss makes absolutely sure of that before we set foot on site.
I love my job and couldn't pick a better group of people to work with, and I say "with" because my boss tells people I don't work FOR him, I work WITH him because he doesn't even have to be there when I do a job. and respect like that keeps me a loyal employee to him and him alone.
I have called him before and told him I couldn't make it to work today because I had sand in my vagina....After he stopped chocking and laughing at me and pulling back onto the road he said ok guess I'll see you tomorrow if you get that taken care of....

Tell me how the operators union could do me any better than any of that?


I don't dog you guys or anyone else for being in a union until being provoked by an off the wall comment like that, so why don't you guys have the common courtesy to do the same for me while I choose to be non union?

you took the words right out of my mouth. seriously

 

[Rhall]

I'm not starting anything here Rob, just got to get it out...

Contrary to what they want people to think JE Dunn does hire non union and don't make them piss in the cup. I've worked for Dunn more than a hand full of times in the last couple of years and was never told to piss. I even asked if I needed to and was told in exact words "no we're not worried about that shit."

I also did some work for Straub and was required to attend a safety meeting with the GC's guy and sign off on all of their safety regs before unloading the first piece of equipment.


But I will absolutely give you that Straub hires some of the most IGNORANT, INCOMPETENT, and just plain STUPID SOBs that ever set foot on a construction site. They hire contractors that call the union hall for laborers because their not allowed to have operators and then throw them into hoes, skid steers, dozers, and whatever else they have on site. The last job we were on for them they called us because their cont. screw up royally and they asked if we'd come clean it up and finish it. The first thing I saw as I pulled up to unload the hoe was a guy running a track hoe loading an end dump while a f***ing idiot was riding on it trying to fuel it up with 5gal cans as he was loading....WTF is that???
I was embarrassed to be on the site for fear of being associated with that outfit. After a couple days of stupid crap like that happening and a few people going to the hospital we pulled all our trucks and equipment off site till they were removed from the property and we could safely work. Last time I'll be on a site with any of their contractors ever again. :thumb:




And for whoever referred to people like me as unorganized labor, getting worked 20hrs a day with no compensation, and no benefits of any kind and that anybody off the street could walk in and replace me tomorrow.... Are you off your freaking rocker? Do you honestly think that's how non union companies are??? Seriously??? I'm non union and and am absolutely positive I'll have a job tomorrow, next week, next year and as long as I choose to work there. And the reason is I've proven my worth many times over by doing just that...my job and I do it well... so HELL NO I don't have to worry about being replaced by some idiot off the street OR because a job across town was finished yesterday and their is now a black guy, mexican, female, or some other member of a minority out of work and they feel they're being discriminated against because I'm working today and they aren't. And I'm quite sure my pay is right up there with any other union operator because I've proven I'm worth the money. I also trust my boss and co workers my life with all kinds of dangerous equipment all day every day and I don't have to hear that they are members of a union to do that. Matter of fact I believe I have a huge advantage there because I don't have to learn the habits different laborers or operators every other day because they find a job closer to home or don't like taking orders from "so and so" the foreman over there. I also like that I don't have to lock my truck and take my keys when I get to the shop and park in the morning.

We are equipped with more than enough safety gear for any site we've ever been on. My boss makes absolutely sure of that before we set foot on site.
I love my job and couldn't pick a better group of people to work with, and I say "with" because my boss tells people I don't work FOR him, I work WITH him because he doesn't even have to be there when I do a job. and respect like that keeps me a loyal employee to him and him alone.
I have called him before and told him I couldn't make it to work today because I had sand in my vagina....After he stopped chocking and laughing at me and pulling back onto the road he said ok guess I'll see you tomorrow if you get that taken care of....

Tell me how the operators union could do me any better than any of that?


I don't dog you guys or anyone else for being in a union until being provoked by an off the wall comment like that, so why don't you guys have the common courtesy to do the same for me while I choose to be non union?[/QUOTE]


Read back a few pages, and see who provoked who, then youll get your answer.

Yes, Je does hire some non-union contractors, but all of there jobs are still mostly union, the only way you walked on to a Je Dunn Job without pissing, is if the safety person didnt know you were there. Im on a Je Dunn job now, and i had to go to another job for a half a day because when the medical office was behind and took a few hours to send my paper work. They wouldnt even let me walk on till it was recieved.

I dont have a problem with non-union workers, seems you just came in on the last couple pages. It was stated that Unions were killing this country, so non union arguments were brought into the conversation. As for being unorganized labor, thats a term, doesnt mean your company is "unorganized" or anything.

As for non-union companys working their hours on end for pennies, that doesnt mean thats what your getting paid now. Unions set the standard back in the day, created the weekend, and created overtime. Before Unions, all work was different, and even non union employees has benifit from the Unions. If the standard wage was 10bucks an hour for an operator, do you think your boss would still pay you what he does? If he didnt give you insurance, would you still work for him? In sence im saying a higher standard helps everyone out.

Sorry if you took offence Kevin, nobody on here was saying those things, if i came out and said non-union companys are ruining this country, im sure you would consider that prevoked, if you read the whole thing, i think you will understand.:thumb: