Are things ever going to get better?
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GMC_2002_Dmax
The Still Master
Tony, you are full of $hit.
Nope, don't think so..................but I do have brown eyes.........:rofl:
You don't have any first hand knowledge of working with a union at all. If you did, you would know Sit downs and Slow downs are not allowed by unions and if union members did try a work stoppage of any kind they would be punished for it by the union itself.
They may not be allowed, but the fire is definitely not always there to get something done........what's that saying, "that guy is no ball of fire"......:thumb:
That is A FACT. The only thing that is true in your statements is that you have heard it all....... as in, you have heard negative things about unions and you're regurgitating it on the forums like its absolute fact, backing it up with generalities.
I actually have first hand knowledge of what goes on, I see the State Road Crews everyday dicking off, I have seen the Union Plumbers taking 2 hour lunches and getting little accomplished, I have seen Union Electricians cutting off 6' of big gauge wire and telling me how much they get for scrapping it while they push their shopping cart around the job. I have seen first hand stuff get damaged because you were not Union.......
Whatever
Again, this goes back to what I said before, Jobs leave because people want the best and don't want to pay, and yes some Builders suck, some treat you good, some are loyal to you, some are loyal to the dollar only, that is the way it works. If you can't survive in those conditions flip some burgers or work for a Union.
As far as having a chip on my shoulder, maybe, I know that we are held to a higher standard in workmanship and safety. I know that the state lowered the testing standards by 100 questions and 4 hours and made it all open book so the non-union guys could get a license.
Now I think your stretching, the reason testing is lowered is because not enough minorities or whatever disadvantaged group that did not do well enough on that test complained to the FEDS or the STATE and said it wasn't fair, oh and BTW work ethic is learned and has nothing to do with test scores, you either care enough to do it right or not and carrying a card in your wallet doesn't make you a good person, a better person or anything you want to say it does, that is some serious bullshit your throwing out there.
I know that we had to go finish the Wal-Mart store because the non-union guys screwed it up, and we had to finish the state prison because the non- union guys screwed it up.
I know lots of State road Work Projects that were totally screwed up by your Glorious Union Workers, I can tell you that Union or Non-Union jobs can still go bad, usually because of the lowest bidder whores who do the jobs get screwed up not because they are Union or Not. If you bid too low, you don't make the $$$$, so you cut corners and everything suffers. Has nothing to do with Union or Non-Union................:baby:
Does that mean I think all non-union is bad, absolutely not, hell I've got really good friends that work non-union and they even say they make the good wages they do because of the union.
They make good wages because that is what the free market determined it was worth, just like now the market is determining what used trucks are worth, what houses are worth, what everything costs is determined by the free market, it's when the forces are introduced that ruin that free market does the price go way up or the quality go way down.
Do everybody a favor and talk about something you do know about, like tuning Duramax pickups
What's there to talk about, if I said I charge more that XYZ tuning because I was a Union shop would you support me over the non-union less expensive shop ???? Would you pay me more as a Union Brother ??? Or would the best price vs. the quality be the only thing you cared about ??? Something to think about...............hmmmmmmmmm ???
Yep, Ya get what you pay for!
I think so, that is why I price my services in the way I do..........thanks for the compliment..........
My point was, why would I work for less than a shop anywhere else in the country. Guy made it sound like we work for less, and we are inferior because we are mostly non-union.
Non-Union means POS to a Union Worker........
I think that we will never agree, but I have plenty of time to argue my case...........in the end the Unions will lose membership as business's close down, if Card Check ever becomes law then watch for unemployment to go way up initially and then stay elevated for years until it get's repealed.
Just my $.02
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Your reasons for hating unions have been around since Moby Dick was a minnow and your .02 don't mean much without real facts which you don't have. Go ahead and keep spewing, the longer you go on, the more people will see that your just a hater.:thumb:Your comments about sitdowns and slowdowns are laughable. I personally know someone that got into huge trouble for merely mentioning that some guys should walk off of a job in KC. He was severly punished by the union. The unions aren't like what you think anymore. You must have watched that Hoffa movie for your facts or something.
As for me stretching it, I actually took the older, longer, harder test in 1999 and the fact is that very few of the nonunion guys could pass it. It wasn't because of minorities like you are leading people to believe. Again, you don't have any facts on the subject, but you spoke about it anyway.
You basically blanket blame unions for everything wrong in America. Also, you started out by saying the UAW ruined GM, moved on to State workers and their faults, moved on to trade unions and then back to State workers ruining the road. I dunno man sounds like your not exactly sure who you hate. Maybe you hate everyone, we already know about the unions, State employees, minorities, the government, road workers, Hungry plumbers, and theiving electricians. How many more will there be?
The next time you quote wages on here, I want to see the job title, and local union number that that specific job is worked from so I can call and check it out, not something you read on the internet or pulled out of your a$$.
BTW. Who watches plumbers for two straight hours? :jerkit::gaybow:
As for me stretching it, I actually took the older, longer, harder test in 1999 and the fact is that very few of the nonunion guys could pass it. It wasn't because of minorities like you are leading people to believe. Again, you don't have any facts on the subject, but you spoke about it anyway.
You basically blanket blame unions for everything wrong in America. Also, you started out by saying the UAW ruined GM, moved on to State workers and their faults, moved on to trade unions and then back to State workers ruining the road. I dunno man sounds like your not exactly sure who you hate. Maybe you hate everyone, we already know about the unions, State employees, minorities, the government, road workers, Hungry plumbers, and theiving electricians. How many more will there be?
The next time you quote wages on here, I want to see the job title, and local union number that that specific job is worked from so I can call and check it out, not something you read on the internet or pulled out of your a$$.
BTW. Who watches plumbers for two straight hours? :jerkit::gaybow:
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GMC_2002_Dmax
The Still Master
You must be so brainwashed your in denial, Start a poll here, see what most people think, I bet you will be surprised !
And your confusing my dislike for Unions with a dislike for all Union workers, that is not the case, and no I do not hate everyone, some of my best friends have worked for Unions at one time or another and still do.
In my experience I have seen that Unions don't cause people to work harder for the most part, they cause people to try and hide behind a rule book and file grievances when they disagree with anything. They are for the most part paid better than they should be based on what I see most of them do, Did someone comment that a 55 year old woman tightening lug nuts is getting $55/hour with benefits ??? WOW, I need to join a Union and make the big $$$$ for that, I wonder if I can pass the lug nut test being it is probably so hard.
I don't watch plumbers, I don't have too, when you work in an adjacent room from them and you stop for lunch and they do and you get back to work and they don't because you don't hear them working it doesn't mean I have to watch them, it just means that they are not working, but that is another story.
What made you so much better you could pass a longer and harder test ?? What kind of test was it ??? I bet it's not as hard as you think it is, but that's another story in itself, now I am supposed to believe that Union guys are not only better but now smarter, if you guys were so smart you would be Unionized at a 30-40% level as you were back in the hey day, guess your not as smart as you once were.
Many Union Guys here have posted how much better your work is, how you don't screw off or work slowly, and that your now even smarter than the rest of us. I challenge you and say that you may think your smarter, better and so on but in reality it's your perception.
Start a poll, most state and federal jobs are Union, teachers are Union, road crews are Union, see what the public thinks of those workers and get back to me.
In closing you never answered my question:
Do everybody a favor and talk about something you do know about, like tuning Duramax pickups
What's there to talk about, if I said I charge more that XYZ tuning because I was a Union shop would you support me over the non-union less expensive shop ???? Would you pay me more as a Union Brother ??? Or would the best price vs. the quality be the only thing you cared about ??? Something to think about...............hmmmmmmmmm ???
Would you pay more and support a Union Tuner or pay less ?? If I was a Union Tuner would I not bee better than a Non-Union Tuner even if my price is 30% higher ??? See if I am a Union Tuner I am smarter, work better, work safer and deserve what I am being paid, do I not ???
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I guess the only area where I have a problem with the protections of a Union is in government work. Any free market will sort itself out in regards to labor, if the cost is worth it the union survives, if not Hello Mexico or non-union labor. That is simple survival and pretty much how it should be....if non union carpenters suck...then the union, with it's high quality work force survives. You do get what you pay for.
Government does the most important work in the nation, teaching our children, protecting our borders, and maintaining our infrastructure. It also does it with no absolute mandate to be efficient and it can't be purchased competitively someplace else because of the union. I don't know about you but I don't think monopolies are good for us, think OPEC, Health Insurance, Microsoft.....parts you can only buy from GM...haha... Government cost run over a little....they just keep right on spending. Why is it that government jobs are the most coveted jobs going? My government should be the stingiest, most type A, nit picken....est employer ever. THAT'S OUR MONEY YOUR SPENDING!!
My mom was a public school teacher for 30 years, she was passionate about helping kids, before school, after school, whatever she LIVED being a teacher. She made good money but probably not as much as she deserved. As far as I am concerned GOOD teachers should make 6 figures. They are that important and the job is that tough. But teachers unions protect everyone, she worked with teachers that were horrible, the kids did horrible and the teachers never changed or improved, but they were tenured. So unless they snapped a yard stick across a students forehead more than once, they were keeping their job. How is that a good thing? How is that fair to the teachers that work really hard, or the tax payers that don't get good value from their tax dollar or the hundreds of children who will have a sub-par teacher because they can't be fired?
Unions have a place in a competitive market, just not in government.
Government does the most important work in the nation, teaching our children, protecting our borders, and maintaining our infrastructure. It also does it with no absolute mandate to be efficient and it can't be purchased competitively someplace else because of the union. I don't know about you but I don't think monopolies are good for us, think OPEC, Health Insurance, Microsoft.....parts you can only buy from GM...haha... Government cost run over a little....they just keep right on spending. Why is it that government jobs are the most coveted jobs going? My government should be the stingiest, most type A, nit picken....est employer ever. THAT'S OUR MONEY YOUR SPENDING!!
My mom was a public school teacher for 30 years, she was passionate about helping kids, before school, after school, whatever she LIVED being a teacher. She made good money but probably not as much as she deserved. As far as I am concerned GOOD teachers should make 6 figures. They are that important and the job is that tough. But teachers unions protect everyone, she worked with teachers that were horrible, the kids did horrible and the teachers never changed or improved, but they were tenured. So unless they snapped a yard stick across a students forehead more than once, they were keeping their job. How is that a good thing? How is that fair to the teachers that work really hard, or the tax payers that don't get good value from their tax dollar or the hundreds of children who will have a sub-par teacher because they can't be fired?
Unions have a place in a competitive market, just not in government.
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