LBZ: Trans kit

[Muff]

Im ready to finally buy a trans kit and a converter for my truck. My friend and I will be installing the kit ourselves, we both have zero prior automatic tranny rebuild knowledge. I have zero worries that installation will be an issue as long as the kit has appropriate directions and we keep the beer in the fridge until we're done. I really wanted to wait and get a kit from Mike but his kits are not quite ready yet and i'd really like to get one within the next few weeks. I want to get a trans kit thatll hold 800 rwhp. The truck will see a few local sled pulls and a few trips down the drag strip. I know ill not even be close to 800 rwhp on a stock bottom end but would rather have a little room to grow.

Suncoast kit with raybestos clutches is $1500 + 1500 for a converter.
"Alligator kit" $2300 with converter.

Im guessing there is a major difference in quality between the two kits. Who should I buy a kit from? What kit is best for my application?

If you guys could give me some experienced info and point me in the right direction that is best suited for my application id really appreciate it.

 

[xtremebikr04]

Id go suncoast, the raybestoes are nice clutches.

 

[Slowmax]

Looking to go the PPE route with mine. After seeing first hand real world tests on a stage 4 kit, built by a very well known transmission builder. It has more then expedited what we all thought we happen. Truck was DD, raced, sled pulled, towed.

 

[DMAXchris]

Take it somewhere and have it built. Ive read too many horror stories from first timers over the years to recommend that someone with zero experience build their own trans for higher hp goals.

Suncoast or PPE would my two choices, depending on what clutches you wanted. Definitely Suncoast for the converter.

 

[Muff]

How are the installation instructions? Do i need to purchase a allison manual for tolerances, torque specs, and that kind of stuff or is all that info in the "kits instructions".

 

[Muff]

Take it somewhere and have it built. Ive read too many horror stories from first timers over the years to recommend that someone with zero experience build their own trans for higher hp goals.

If i could take it somewhere and have them teach me how to put it together i would but i'm sure nobody would go for that. I wanna learn how to do it myself so i can swap out clutches and parts in the future when i have higher hp #'s and abuse these parts more often. I really enjoy working on this stuff and learning how to, i have zero interest in paying somebody to do it for more me.

I understand where your coming from though chris and appreciate the fair warning.

 

[Evan@InglewoodTrans]

Im ready to finally buy a trans kit and a converter for my truck. My friend and I will be installing the kit ourselves, we both have zero prior automatic tranny rebuild knowledge. I have zero worries that installation will be an issue as long as the kit has appropriate directions and we keep the beer in the fridge until we're done. I really wanted to wait and get a kit from Mike but his kits are not quite ready yet and i'd really like to get one within the next few weeks. I want to get a trans kit thatll hold 800 rwhp. The truck will see a few local sled pulls and a few trips down the drag strip. I know ill not even be close to 800 rwhp on a stock bottom end but would rather have a little room to grow.

Suncoast kit with raybestos clutches is $1500 + 1500 for a converter.
"Alligator kit" $2300 with converter.

Im guessing there is a major difference in quality between the two kits. Who should I buy a kit from? What kit is best for my application?

If you guys could give me some experienced info and point me in the right direction that is best suited for my application id really appreciate it.

The Suncoast Raybestos kits are the way to go.

 

[duramaxzak]

I built my own tranny with a Suncoast stage4 kit and the instructions are pretty weak. Definetly get a Allison manual!

 

[DMAXchris]

If i could take it somewhere and have them teach me how to put it together i would but i'm sure nobody would go for that. I wanna learn how to do it myself so i can swap out clutches and parts in the future when i have higher hp #'s and abuse these parts more often. I really enjoy working on this stuff and learning how to, i have zero interest in paying somebody to do it for more me.

I understand where your coming from though chris and appreciate the fair warning.

Totally understand the joy of doing it yourself. Get an ATSG Allison manual and have Mike L on speed dial. I don't think kits come with instructions. Maybe some clearance specs but that's about it. There was a write up on duramax forum where some guy built his trans on the balcony of his apartment. Lots of pics but it's for a 5 speed. Good luck!

 

[Evan@InglewoodTrans]

I built my own tranny with a Suncoast stage4 kit and the instructions are pretty weak. Definetly get a Allison manual!

The instructions are just fine if you know what your doing.

 

[mike diesel]

The Allison manual (ATSG) is meant for a stock rebuild so tolerances are not the same. I built my own with an alligator kit and have had zero issues. Between the ATSG manual and the supplied tolerance/instructions sheet it's not hard. The big difference between the Suncoast and alligator kit is that alligator still uses red eagle clutches which I believe we're the "standard" from 03-09 or so...so there kind of out dated. I personally would rather have the red eagle clutch over the Suncoast gmax clutches. But if you were to get the gpz or raybesto clutches...then i would go that route for sure.

Also make sure you buy the "mike L PR spring" and install that along with the supplied shim for increased line pressure rather than using the Transgo line pressure shim. Transgo shim bumps you to 255 psi IIRC and the mike L spring alone bumps to 290 psi and with the shim (suggested for 800hp+) bumps to 325 psi. Be sure to modify the converter flow valve for 0 psi knock down on lock up as well.

IIRC the ppe stage 4 kit comes with 14 clutches in the c1 and the alligator has 16 in the c1...im not familiar with Suncoast kits and what instructions they offer so I'm no help there.

Take that info for what it's worth as I'm not a trans genius but I have built (assembled I guess) more than 1 allison with zero issues.

I would say an "off the shelf kit" if installed correctly along with the PR spring and shim should hold 800 hp ok. Don't think I would push it any higher tho.

 

[Muff]

The Allison manual (ATSG) is meant for a stock rebuild so tolerances are not the same. I built my own with an alligator kit and have had zero issues. Between the ATSG manual and the supplied tolerance/instructions sheet it's not hard. The big difference between the Suncoast and alligator kit is that alligator still uses red eagle clutches which I believe we're the "standard" from 03-09 or so...so there kind of out dated. I personally would rather have the red eagle clutch over the Suncoast gmax clutches. But if you were to get the gpz or raybesto clutches...then i would go that route for sure.

Also make sure you buy the "mike L PR spring" and install that along with the supplied shim for increased line pressure rather than using the Transgo line pressure shim. Transgo shim bumps you to 255 psi IIRC and the mike L spring alone bumps to 290 psi and with the shim (suggested for 800hp+) bumps to 325 psi. Be sure to modify the converter flow valve for 0 psi knock down on lock up as well.

IIRC the ppe stage 4 kit comes with 14 clutches in the c1 and the alligator has 16 in the c1...im not familiar with Suncoast kits and what instructions they offer so I'm no help there.

Take that info for what it's worth as I'm not a trans genius but I have built (assembled I guess) more than 1 allison with zero issues.

I would say an "off the shelf kit" if installed correctly along with the PR spring and shim should hold 800 hp ok. Don't think I would push it any higher tho.

Nice freaking post Mike lots of great info there for me!

 

[Evan@InglewoodTrans]

The Allison manual (ATSG) is meant for a stock rebuild so tolerances are not the same. I built my own with an alligator kit and have had zero issues. Between the ATSG manual and the supplied tolerance/instructions sheet it's not hard. The big difference between the Suncoast and alligator kit is that alligator still uses red eagle clutches which I believe we're the "standard" from 03-09 or so...so there kind of out dated. I personally would rather have the red eagle clutch over the Suncoast gmax clutches. But if you were to get the gpz or raybesto clutches...then i would go that route for sure.

Also make sure you buy the "mike L PR spring" and install that along with the supplied shim for increased line pressure rather than using the Transgo line pressure shim. Transgo shim bumps you to 255 psi IIRC and the mike L spring alone bumps to 290 psi and with the shim (suggested for 800hp+) bumps to 325 psi. Be sure to modify the converter flow valve for 0 psi knock down on lock up as well.

IIRC the ppe stage 4 kit comes with 14 clutches in the c1 and the alligator has 16 in the c1...im not familiar with Suncoast kits and what instructions they offer so I'm no help there.

Take that info for what it's worth as I'm not a trans genius but I have built (assembled I guess) more than 1 allison with zero issues.

I would say an "off the shelf kit" if installed correctly along with the PR spring and shim should hold 800 hp ok. Don't think I would push it any higher tho.

Do you have a lot of experience with the two?

 

[mike diesel]

No i dont. Just from my research when i was gathering info for my build I concluded the red eagle clutch's would better suit me. I'm sure if the OP went with a gmax kit he would be just as happy.

 

[Evan@InglewoodTrans]

No i dont. Just from my research when i was gathering info for my build I concluded the red eagle clutch's would better suit me. I'm sure if the OP went with a gmax kit he would be just as happy.

Suncoast no longer uses the sometimes problematic single sided GMAX c3/c4 clutches.

 

[mike diesel]

Suncoast no longer uses the sometimes problematic single sided GMAX c3/c4 clutches.

Well there you go. It's been a year and a half since I built mine and haven't been in the loop as much as I thought.

 

[Slowmax]

Also Suncoast instructions in a GMAX 5 kit were very vague. The PPE instructions were very straight forward, did not have to do much digging for additional info.

 

[03badmaxxx]

Also Suncoast instructions in a GMAX 5 kit were very vague. The PPE instructions were very straight forward, did not have to do much digging for additional info.

It's hard to gauge the skill of the person building transmissions with our kits. With that being said, we provide instructions based off a general knowledge of transmissions but recommend that they be installed by a qualified professional. If they don't suit you or whoever we invite tech calls for any of our products. and will usually get to talk to a builder (as we are actually a transmission company) on the spot to help sort out any problems and thoroughly explain/answer any questions you have.

Andrew Murdock
Sun Coast Converters Inc.
819 Navy St.
Fort Walton Beach Fl. 32547
1-850-864-2361 FAX 1-850-864-0943
[email protected]
[email protected]
www.suncoastconverters.com
www.suncoastdiesel.com

 

[Slowmax]

It's hard to gauge the skill of the person building transmissions with our kits. With that being said, we provide instructions based off a general knowledge of transmissions but recommend that they be professionally installed. If they don't suit you or whoever we invite tech calls for any of our products and will usually get to talk to a builder on the spot.

Not trying to stir the pot here either. I use this form to learn all about the Duramax options both stock/aftermarket mods. I am not trying to slander the company you work for or take anything way from them Andrew. I have just seen first hand the set of instructions for both a PPE kit, and Suncoast for clearances, explanation of what to call each individual piece with in the kit etc. If I was in this gentlemen's shoes for the guy wanting to build his own kit the PPE will be less head ache and worry. If he would like to pay someone to build it then go with a Suncoast.

 

[Bustedknuckles]

Get the suncoast kit, PPE doesn't have anyone you can talk to if you have a problem and suncoast guys are super helpful and Im sure Mike gets tired of guys calling and picking his brain when they don't buy parts from him. I really wish he would put a kit together....