Twins with Twins, Anyone?

LBZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Jul 2, 2007
9,903
149
63
46
B.C.
See this would be extremely easy for me to solve but my problem is if I use as good pump (IMO I'd rather use an Aeromotive for their simple speed control) I would be priced well above the market and have inventory sitting here OR have to build to order which will piss people off.
Fuelab had speed control long before aeromotive. But I get what you’re saying.

If I were to reach a level of needing a real lift pump, I’d just build my own system, be more money than buying off the shelf but I guarantee it would be better and last longer.
 

Bdsankey

Vendor
Vendor/Sponsor
Feb 1, 2018
4,155
1,264
113
Larsen, Wisconsin
Fuelab had speed control long before aeromotive. But I get what you’re saying.

If I were to reach a level of needing a real lift pump, I’d just build my own system, be more money than buying off the shelf but I guarantee it would be better and last longer.
Downfall is Fuelab is a more complicated speed control method being PWM. Aeromotive uses 0-5v on some of their pumps (gear pumps I know they do) where a guy could tap into TPS or MAF.
 

ikeG

Oughta Know Better
Apr 19, 2011
2,464
147
63
Western PA
www.facebook.com
Waterman and be done with it
b0aeba10bc46f3779a8230df4d26c3f5.jpg


Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk
 

LBZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Jul 2, 2007
9,903
149
63
46
B.C.
Downfall is Fuelab is a more complicated speed control method being PWM. Aeromotive uses 0-5v on some of their pumps (gear pumps I know they do) where a guy could tap into TPS or MAF.
The 200 gph can be wired to run 5 different ways. 4 of the 5 do not require PWM.
Also it’s worth noting the 200 is at 20 psi. At 8-10 psi it’s about 225 gph. At about 10 amps that’s quite impressive for brushless.

Not knocking the Aeromotive it’s a great pump, but I’ve looked extensively at both and Fuelab is the better choice in my opinion.
 
Last edited:

Bdsankey

Vendor
Vendor/Sponsor
Feb 1, 2018
4,155
1,264
113
Larsen, Wisconsin
The 200 gph can be wired to run 5 different ways. 4 of the 5 do not require PWM.
Also it’s worth noting the 200 is at 20 psi. At 8-10 psi it’s about 225 gph. At about 10 amps that’s quite impressive for brushless.

Not knocking the Aeromotive it’s a great pump, but I’ve looked extensively at both and Fuelab is the better choice in my opinion.
For sure, they're both great pumps. I have a 41403 and it's been great. I run my speed control off a hobbs switch where my pump runs at low speed until ~20psi of boost then kicks to high speed with a Fuelab 5gpm rated regulator.

I know I can easily make a great product but it will never compete price wise. Plus the guys/gals who need that type of system have the knowledge (I hope) to build/plumb a system like that themselves.
 

JoshH

Daggum farm truck
Staff member
Vendor/Sponsor
Feb 14, 2007
13,713
774
113
Texas!!!
The 200 gph can be wired to run 5 different ways. 4 of the 5 do not require PWM.
Also it’s worth noting the 200 is at 20 psi. At 8-10 psi it’s about 225 gph. At about 10 amps that’s quite impressive for brushless.

Not knocking the Aeromotive it’s a great pump, but I’ve looked extensively at both and Fuelab is the better choice in my opinion.
I also did a lot of research for a project we were working on a little while ago. We ended up going with the Aeromotive pump for a couple of reasons. The Aeromotive pump we used had similar flow and current ratings to the Fuelab pump we were looking at, but it didn't fall off or gain require as much power at higher pressures. The other thing I liked about it was that it didn't require anything special for an infinitely adjustable variable speed control. While it is easy to get a high/low speed control setup, to make it infinitely variable to change with engine load, you would have to come up with some sort of PWM controller. We were able to tie the speed control wire on the Aeromotive to the MAF sensor signal to make it adjust with RPM/load. This, along with a boost referenced regulator, allowed us to run a low 8 psi at idle that ramps up to 60 psi under full load to feed a solid supply of fuel to the CP3. I know the same could have been done with the Fuelab, but it wouldn't have been the same smooth transition and would have had a higher amp load at high pressure.
 

Chevy1925

don't know sh!t about IFS
Staff member
Oct 21, 2009
21,670
5,818
113
Phoenix Az
I also did a lot of research for a project we were working on a little while ago. We ended up going with the Aeromotive pump for a couple of reasons. The Aeromotive pump we used had similar flow and current ratings to the Fuelab pump we were looking at, but it didn't fall off or gain require as much power at higher pressures. The other thing I liked about it was that it didn't require anything special for an infinitely adjustable variable speed control. While it is easy to get a high/low speed control setup, to make it infinitely variable to change with engine load, you would have to come up with some sort of PWM controller. We were able to tie the speed control wire on the Aeromotive to the MAF sensor signal to make it adjust with RPM/load. This, along with a boost referenced regulator, allowed us to run a low 8 psi at idle that ramps up to 60 psi under full load to feed a solid supply of fuel to the CP3. I know the same could have been done with the Fuelab, but it wouldn't have been the same smooth transition and would have had a higher amp load at high pressure.
just out of curiosity, why MAF and not the FPR? was it due to the fact the fpr has high current/voltage at idle and low current/voltage at WOT?
 

Bdsankey

Vendor
Vendor/Sponsor
Feb 1, 2018
4,155
1,264
113
Larsen, Wisconsin
just out of curiosity, why MAF and not the FPR? was it due to the fact the fpr has high current/voltage at idle and low current/voltage at WOT?
My guess is the Aeromotive gear pumps are 0-5V reference with 0v being low speed and 5v being max. You could certainly do rail pressure off the sensor as they’re 0-5v but that could pose an issue if the tune is off causing rail to drop and pump speed to drop where MAF or TPS will be toward the top end of the 5v spectrum at full load.
 

JoshH

Daggum farm truck
Staff member
Vendor/Sponsor
Feb 14, 2007
13,713
774
113
Texas!!!
just out of curiosity, why MAF and not the FPR? was it due to the fact the fpr has high current/voltage at idle and low current/voltage at WOT?
I felt that MAF was a better indicator of engine load and therefor more in line with necessary fuel requirements. I also considered using MAP, but since I was planning to boost reference it, I thought it would be somewhat redundant. I used this double adjustable regulator to set the pressure. I set base pressure to 8 psi and used an adjustable voltage box to feed 5 volts to the speed control wire of the pump and set the high speed pressure to 25 psi. The rest of the pressure comes of the boost reference port.

 
Last edited:

LBZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Jul 2, 2007
9,903
149
63
46
B.C.
I also did a lot of research for a project we were working on a little while ago. We ended up going with the Aeromotive pump for a couple of reasons. The Aeromotive pump we used had similar flow and current ratings to the Fuelab pump we were looking at, but it didn't fall off or gain require as much power at higher pressures. The other thing I liked about it was that it didn't require anything special for an infinitely adjustable variable speed control. While it is easy to get a high/low speed control setup, to make it infinitely variable to change with engine load, you would have to come up with some sort of PWM controller. We were able to tie the speed control wire on the Aeromotive to the MAF sensor signal to make it adjust with RPM/load. This, along with a boost referenced regulator, allowed us to run a low 8 psi at idle that ramps up to 60 psi under full load to feed a solid supply of fuel to the CP3. I know the same could have been done with the Fuelab, but it wouldn't have been the same smooth transition and would have had a higher amp load at high pressure.
I always wanted to try a dual fueler harness. FPR signal is PWM. Doesn’t get much cleaner for install either. Just not sure how it would work with the pump…….
 

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,366
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
Ok Ok.. How about I build ya'll a $50 CANbus based PWM controller that reads TPS, Load, Boost and or MAF signal? Can even plug into chassis harness at CANbus terminator near rear bumper.

Could probably do it with an arduino teensy, and even make it Bluetooth programable, with real-time voltage to pressure feedback. I'll even make it pop the change fuel filter light on the dash if goes outa spec..

I'm just wrapping up a new IP67 push button programable 6 channel ADC to canbus control for J1939 and NMEA 2k. And I'm pretty handy with GMLAN up to 2020, so not really a big deal to whip some out using common off the shelf arduino hardware if ya know the pump requirements.

This little unit started out as arduino based project, then I migrated to my Arm M4 Gateway platform for the real world release.

Source: https://youtu.be/yJk-RKtDzE8
377bc7e0d3fdc94aed9f25eba3e854a4.jpg


Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
 

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,366
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
Now you guys can help convince Fingers to build us some of these 2 piece steel / aluminum pistons.

Helped out by only watching, a Cat C15 rebuild last week. Can't believe the simplicity of this piston and skirt design. Why hasn't anyone tried this yet??

And love these one wasnt big enough, so tack on a second tube, squirter design they use..
c17e107bef3e68094f93e408d3a82990.jpg
f30ea5b17a77bddc35b525cd8e028b49.jpg
5b19b968aa2db93d8a66e79f6ae8d6a1.jpg
da91856f5a50352d26ecd2ba027ec377.jpg


Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: buick455

2004LB7

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2010
6,968
2,137
113
Norcal
love the idea on the canbus fuel pump. from my logs load never seemed to add up or make since so I don't know if that will work. maybe it's more related to the tune vs stock tuning. MAF does seem like a good indicator but not sure how it would work for people running larger snails or diving in the clouds. what about fuel pressure actual vs desired. the more it deviates from the desired the harder it drives the pump. you can have a minimum and maximum programmable psi limit

I've for years always wondered about steel capped aluminum pistons. never understood why those monotherm pistons never came about either. especially after all the development that went into them. wonder if fingers can come up with something
 

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,366
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
Those were some healthy looking pistons and rods. Which made me ask a stupid question, "why so big if only 500hp??" Duh... Factory torque spec is 1550-2050 lb-ft @ 1200 rpm. And they put a marine cam in it, that raises the curve and R's a couple 100. Now it makes 600hp. Ok impressive. But still weights more than two Dmax..

I first heard of the pwm speed regulated pumps on Mustang many years back. But really never messed with em. Recall the Cobra guys had some aftermarket controller that let ya bump the factory pumps output under high boost. But that's about all I really remember. However, controlling a pwm signal with small microprocessor, is right up my alley.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SmokeShow