Racing Thermostats:

McRat

Diesel Hotrodder
Aug 2, 2006
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In our engines at 500+ rwhp, we are putting in far more heat into the internal parts than they were designed for. The water jacket doesn't get larger, nor does the water pump flow more when we increase the heat. To cool these internals you have four things that can be used to remove the heat:

Intake air: This has the least effect. The mass of the air per revolution is just tiny, and air itself sucks at removing heat, or we'd all be driving VW Beetles still.

Exhaust air: Keeping the exhaust air cooler (EGT's) is the best way to keep the turbines and exhaust valves happy. But to make big power, you're going to run more EGT's, not less, than stock, so it's actually a negative as far as increasing cooling over stock.

Oil: This is doing most the work, and it is cooled by the water.

Water: This is the only effective means we have of removing more heat from the internals. Whether you get best MPG at 225 deg like a Corvette does is irrelevant for racing. If you increase HP, that 225 deg system is not going to hold up. Obviously they don't run 225 deg sustained when racing them, they first modify the cooling system.

Something to ponder though. People have blown out water jacket plugs without "overheating". I can tell you that this is impossible if your head gasket is holding. Unless water is boiling, it cannot generate enough pressure to blow out a plug. Or our trucks would blow out their plugs at stock power level at 4500rpm when grade-braking. That is when the water pump is making maximum block pressure. The return restriction is fixed, the water pump increases pressure as a function of RPM.

So what is really happening? The temp you see at the return is the average water temp. Not peak. Areas in the block and heads boil water when you crank up the power, and this increases internal pressure. As the steam travels away from the hot spots, it mixes back into the cooler water, and averages out the temp you see at the return.

I guess I'm catching flak from two directions by starting this thread:

A) I'm announcing it prematurely, further testing should be done.

B) I'm keeping it secret, not telling people about it.

It's not like I'm ever going to win in such a situation. Nor am I going to make money selling a handful of thermostats to hardcore racers for a couple of bucks. Nor am I motivated by money, or I'd quit racing and spend more time at my real job.
 

JoshH

Daggum farm truck
Staff member
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Feb 14, 2007
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I was thinking more for guys that are daily driving, towing, and in colder climates. If you just swapped one, would you see the one thermostat be able to keep the coolant temp down in low load situations but keep a small amount of restriction like has been discussed is needed? I would guess you would have a more progressive temperature control rather than having both pop open at the same time. You can have one open and if the temp keeps rising then the other will open. Thoughts?
 

TrentNell

Finally underway !!!!!
Jul 7, 2008
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I was thinking more for guys that are daily driving, towing, and in colder climates. If you just swapped one, would you see the one thermostat be able to keep the coolant temp down in low load situations but keep a small amount of restriction like has been discussed is needed? I would guess you would have a more progressive temperature control rather than having both pop open at the same time. You can have one open and if the temp keeps rising then the other will open. Thoughts?

I would think the if there is not restriction it would fix itself , meening if its flowing too freeley for a bit the temp would fall and the T-stats would close and then your restriction is back and it would go in circles just as the other t-stats do ? I cant see where these t-stats have changed much other than they act quicker opening when the temp is acheived and act sooner because of them being lower temp ?
 
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KEVINL

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2008
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Wont lower coolant temps allow the oil cooler to be more effective at pulling heat out of the oil.


I am not sure about the diesels should run at 210 thing the 6.5 guys say thats when there motors start to melt down
 

FMOS

Hard Up
Nov 19, 2008
352
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Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada
... In all honesty, how much thought, design/engineering and quality parts went into the 6.5?

It was built at a time when there were plenty of other diesel motors on the market that had far more reliability and power output... so what is that motor really about?

I think its a bad idea to compare anything legit to a 6.5.
 

TNRGreene

Kicked to the Curb
Sep 2, 2006
2,911
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Bradenton, Florida
Thanks Ben, I'll try that. Not sure it's a problem so to say but it just feels weird in our truck. Steve did complain though in his also. That "it feels like stock fueling tables"
 

sweetdiesel

That's better
Aug 6, 2006
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Todd sometimes the ECT will pull timng and fuel press
At 80 mm3 + i put 0 in the tables of fuel press ECT and time ECT there is other ways to adjust it also,But i prefer to not use multipliers JMHO:)

B1002
b0915
 
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McRat

Diesel Hotrodder
Aug 2, 2006
11,249
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Norco CA
www.mcratracing.com
What I do know, is that I've had to race a truck when the engine was pretty cool, no temp on the thermostat yet. Sometimes you are called to lanes by surprise. Whatever I did to my race tunes works on our trucks.

It's not the same for all O/S'es, so you need to just go through the tables, top to bottom and when you see temperature as a function, adjust the table so it doesn't limit anything. The thermostats do not change how fast the engine warms up until you get past 160. So with either stock thermostats or race thermostats, you can race on an ice-cold engine if you alter the tune enough. That can cause bearing failures, so use common sense when adjusting.
 

sweetdiesel

That's better
Aug 6, 2006
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Simom your saying just change B0730 lower only or B1002, B0195 & B0925 also?


A easy fix is to just drop the temp in B0730 and then you would have the same fuel that you would normally have, there are other options.

look in b1003 and you can fix that if you want or feel its needed as for b1002 i useally just change the 80mm3+ rows to 0 this allows no changes to take place from ECT,Again there are other ways but this is what i do.

As far as the pilot injection timing? Ask Ben i dont worry about that

Quite a few guys ive heard have never needed to adjust these tables Todd,But if you aint full fueling this should help:)
 

TrentNell

Finally underway !!!!!
Jul 7, 2008
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I just got back from my camping trip and the T-sats worked just fine , the interesting thing is the truth on testing is inbetween all the theroys posted , The truck did not overheat but it did run at the normal pre-thermo stat temp while pulling grades ( just under 210 on the dash )instead of the advertised temp rating . so there is proof that even with the t-stats open the radiator still has the capacity to cool the motor . the plus for me was after the grade on the down hill it would drop the coolant temp too 170-180 (dash gage) so it helped cool everything down after the abuse . I still would not recomemnd these to some one looking to improve towing but as far as i can tell there is no limmitation as loosing the function of the truck while running these racing thermostats .
 

McRat

Diesel Hotrodder
Aug 2, 2006
11,249
26
38
64
Norco CA
www.mcratracing.com
I just got back from my camping trip and the T-sats worked just fine , the interesting thing is the truth on testing is inbetween all the theroys posted , The truck did not overheat but it did run at the normal pre-thermo stat temp while pulling grades ( just under 210 on the dash )instead of the advertised temp rating . so there is proof that even with the t-stats open the radiator still has the capacity to cool the motor . the plus for me was after the grade on the down hill it would drop the coolant temp too 170-180 (dash gage) so it helped cool everything down after the abuse . I still would not recomemnd these to some one looking to improve towing but as far as i can tell there is no limmitation as loosing the function of the truck while running these racing thermostats .

Thank you. Good info!

Yeah, the race thermostats won't change the radiator size, which is the cooling muscle. I doubt they would help an overheater. What they should do is open faster to avoid trapping superheated water in the block and heads waiting the thermostats to open during short racing bursts.
 

lotsofmiles

Father of the Van
Dec 4, 2008
3,097
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Michigan
just curious why you wound'nt recommend for towing? more testing needed? I'm not in a hurry to change anything on the truck, as i tow ALOT and I cant even remember the last time i've heard the fan kick in on the truck. just curious
I just got back from my camping trip and the T-sats worked just fine , the interesting thing is the truth on testing is inbetween all the theroys posted , The truck did not overheat but it did run at the normal pre-thermo stat temp while pulling grades ( just under 210 on the dash )instead of the advertised temp rating . so there is proof that even with the t-stats open the radiator still has the capacity to cool the motor . the plus for me was after the grade on the down hill it would drop the coolant temp too 170-180 (dash gage) so it helped cool everything down after the abuse . I still would not recomemnd these to some one looking to improve towing but as far as i can tell there is no limmitation as loosing the function of the truck while running these racing thermostats .