Pics of the New Pulling Setup

[Rhall]

We've only have had a few chime in on this. I can tell you we lower as far as we can. We have 3trucks running this setup, 4" TC lift. We have "played" a bunch & have not found pre loading to help. What are the trucks out of Burkhard's shop doing? Maybe Matt Gainer, Pops, Johnboy, the boys out of Danville. I understand the fine tuning thing & that it's different for different tracks.

My buddy called and said his scales are NOT large enough to test.
A test for Myth Busters?

Also, a lifted truck might have different results than a stock height truck. Idk, what does Troy do Sleeper? Its looks like from the vids he keeps them up just a bit, his truck seems to hook up damn good. Seems all the trucks out of Burkhards shops have the tc 4" lift, and i thought he said it clears 35s with the tbars at the stock height, but idk if thats what he pulls at or not.

 

[RPM Motorsports]

A TB is a spring. It twist's to a point to support xxx amount of weight. It does not care if it's dropped all the way down or raised all the way up. All it's there for is to support the weight. Once loaded, it pretty much stays in the same place (while not moving). That’s why it's important to keep the bars in the same place if removed. Once used, the bars have some memory, and can actually be damaged if reversed/unsprung. The stiffness from jacking the TB's comes from the angle of the arms. If your arms are flat with the ground they will move up/down a lot easier then if the arms are at an angle. Most drop the TB's to transfer "free weight" to the front of the truck.

 

[Rhall]

You guys are funny! A TB is a spring. It twist's to a point to support xxx amount of weight. It does not care if it's droped all the way down or raised all the way up. All it's there for is to support the weight. once loaded, it pretty much stays in the same place (while not moving). Thats why it's important to keep the bars in the same place if removed. Once used, the bars have some memory, and can actually be damaged if reversed/unsprung. The stiffness from jacking the TB's comes from the angle of the arm's. If your arms are flat with the ground they will move up/down alot easyer then if the arms are at an angle. Most drop the TB's to transfer "free weight" to the front of the truck, and gives the wedge look.

So it coult be fair to say by cranking them down all the way, you will get more front end raise (due to the a arms being flat), then loose more hitch height. I still think it all has to do with your all around set up how your tbars are set. When you watch a video of a lifted truck, they dont seem to have as much front end raise when pulling, as a stock truck would with the tbars all the way down.

 

[TNRGreene]

Also, a lifted truck might have different results than a stock height truck. Idk, what does Troy do Sleeper? Its looks like from the vids he keeps them up just a bit, his truck seems to hook up damn good. Seems all the trucks out of Burkhards shops have the tc 4" lift, and i thought he said it clears 35s with the tbars at the stock height, but idk if thats what he pulls at or not.

I apoligize
I was under the impression that we were discussing lifted trucks because this thread is about Travis.

After lifting our truck it was night & day in front of the sled for the better. It does look as if a few trucks keep them up but seems most keep them down. I am guessing on that though by posts. Not sure which Troy you are talking about but don't know the answer no matter which one you mean either way. I'll ask about whom you mean & then ask if there is any breakage going on also? Evan's truck does real well & I think they are up. I know you have to think outside of the box on things but this does not work on any of our trucks. It lets the front lift higher, thus planting the rear harder, getting the CV's out of whack & loosing more hitch height. Worthwhile trade off? I can't be sure other then when doing this our truck went from the front to mid pack, back down & it's up front again. I can only comment on ours here. I will not comment on Tony' setup, if he chooses that would help but that is his choice.
BTW, this is a great thread. This kinda stuff really makes you think :cool2:

 

[TNRGreene]

With our bars down the arms are not flat. They are up at the tire as are the CV's & both run down the track dead level.
My truck has a 4" TC if I hadn't posted that

 

[Rhall]

I apoligize
I was under the impression that we were discussing lifted trucks because this thread is about Travis.

After lifting our truck it was night & day in front of the sled for the better. It does look as if a few trucks keep them up but seems most keep them down. I am guessing on that though by posts. Not sure which Troy you are talking about but don't know the answer no matter which one you mean either way. I'll ask about whom you mean & then ask if there is any breakage going on also? Evan's truck does real well & I think they are up. I know you have to think outside of the box on things but this does not work on any of our trucks. It lets the front lift higher, thus planting the rear harder, getting the CV's out of whack & loosing more hitch height. Worthwhile trade off? I can't be sure other then when doing this our truck went from the front to mid pack, back down & it's up front again. I can only comment on ours here. I will not comment on Tony' setup, if he chooses that would help but that is his choice.
BTW, this is a great thread. This kinda stuff really makes you think :cool2:

Yes it does, and no biggie, it kinda is on lifted trucks, i was talking about Troy Wakemans dmax (bad ass white dually with purple flames lol), Sleeper is redws6rockets nickname lol and hes good friends with Troy. If i did get back into pulling, i would probably put a 4" tc in mine, thats why i think this is a good thread too. It seems to me that the lifted trucks keep a better balanced stance while pulling, imo anytime your suspension has a lot of flex, or the front end comes up a lot, your loosing hitch height, and shifting a lot of wieght, id rather keep a steady stance all the way through.

 

[Rhall]

I run 2" blocks in the rear and run just a small bit of preload. I have not touched my adjuster bolts since I installed the lift. I would like to build a custom hitch for the rear and ditch the 2" blocks. I have founds that no matter what I do the front always levels with the rear and I would like to get the rear end lower so the front will stay planted.

Thanks for the info Travis

 

[TNRGreene]

I can't get my last video to up load, It doesn't move much at all. Troy's comes up more than mine does BUT he has a shitpot more HP then I do

 

[bullfrogjohnson]

When I said preload in my previous post I don't run any extra tension on my bars. I only have enough threads to keep the bars from rattling around. When sitting in the driveway my cv angles are negative and when I go down the truck track they are a little past level.

 

[TNRGreene]

When I said preload in my previous post I don't run any extra tension on my bars. I only have enough threads to keep the bars from rattling around. When sitting in the driveway my cv angles are negative and when I go down the truck track they are a little past level.

My bolts are just barely touching my keys

 

[redws6rocket]

troys bars are all the way down, i have tried to talk to him about it but he does not want to change them. i agree, the is probably one of the best threads i have read and been apart of! i see alot of trucks with the tc 4" lift, burkhard and all the trucks he has done are the same. evan davis has a very impressive truck that is lifted also. matt gainer's truck runs very well, i can not tell what he has done with his setup my the videos, it does not move at all in the front, it is also geared. i talked to mark and he gave me some info on his setup!

 

[IOWA LLY]

Any body know if the trucks running a 4" TC lift sit on the little yellow rubber bumpers when they are in pulling form? (Bars down weights on)

I know on stock suspension when you lower the bars all the way down and hang some weight you are resting heavily on the little rubber bumpers.

 

[TNRGreene]

Any body know if the trucks running a 4" TC lift sit on the little yellow rubber bumpers when they are in pulling form? (Bars down weights on)

I know on stock suspension when you lower the bars all the way down and hang some weight you are resting heavily on the little rubber bumpers.

yes but mine are black

 

[RPM Motorsports]

Any body know if the trucks running a 4" TC lift sit on the little yellow rubber bumpers when they are in pulling form? (Bars down weights on)

I know on stock suspension when you lower the bars all the way down and hang some weight you are resting heavily on the little rubber bumpers.

With 500lb and bars down, mine are just barely above the yellow bumpers.

 

[Leadfoot]

We've only have had a few chime in on this. I can tell you we lower as far as we can. We have 3trucks running this setup, 4" TC lift. We have "played" a bunch & have not found pre loading to help. What are the trucks out of Burkhard's shop doing? Maybe Matt Gainer, Pops, Johnboy, the boys out of Danville. I understand the fine tuning thing & that it's different for different tracks.

My buddy called and said his scales are NOT large enough to test.
A test for Myth Busters?

We had a set of 4 scales that did up to 8K.

We did not test any diesels (too heavy), but we did several gassers in several different styles/years to discuss the advantages of wheelbase. One of the many things we tried that day was take a 6 liter gas 2500HD and see what happened with torsion bars up and down (trying to settle a similar debate). Obviously it weighed within 2 lbs each time, but when the bars were down (no weight on the back), there was slightly more weight on the front axle than with the bars cranked (weight transferred to the back as the bars cranked). I don't remember exactly how much but it was less than 100 lbs.

The thing I found interesting is we put three small guys in the back sitting off the tailgate (combined weight of ~530) to simulate hitch downforce. We found more weight (compared with just bar cranking) transferred to the rear axle with the bars cranked than with them dropped (I assume it would only be worse with a sled pulling down).

We also found that more weight percentage wise lifted off the front and transferred to the rear on short wheelbase trucks (which most people thought would happen).

Another interesting thing we found is we took my 1980 reg cab longbed and a 4 door shortbed ~98 V10. My truck weighed 6070 and the other weighed 6720 in daily trim. My truck had a 58.8/41.2 front to rear weight split and the other was 58.6/41.4 front to rear weight split (pretty dang close). We weighted mine at the front of the bed to equal 6720 and found it changed my weight ratio to 56.9/43.1

There has been talk of upping the weight class to allow newer vehicles to pull as many weigh more than 6200 from the factory, but also coming up with a way to keep it fair (other than hanging weight) for the Old Skoolers......

As for the torsion bars pushing down on the front.....Nope. If you took the torsion bars out and the weight of the truck was supported by the front axle there would be more weight on the front end (overall truck weight would be the same........minus the missing torsion bars). As the torsion bars suspend the front of the chassis/body above the axle, weight is transferred to the back, the higher the front the more weight transfer to the rear and the less pressure on the front tires. You might say there is more push downward as the springs are loaded/tensioned but for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction (lifting of the chassis and weight transfer).

I could see cranking tbars if CV shaft angles are negative while pulling (i.e. hanging insane amounts of weight off the front) to help keep them level, or if your suspension is wacky and the rear ends up hooking better than your front (such as 2WD pullers or those without a front locker).

 

[RENODMAX]

good post leadfoot! :thumb:

 

[dmaxfireman]

i just had a few light bulbs flash upstairs i gots lots of tinkering to try soon as i find my damn oil drip and fix it lol!!!

 

[05smoker]

Here are some pics of some trucks from Ohio this year. I like the look of the Dodge and it works. I think I might give it a shot with my new ECLB. Harold Lyle's truck is setup almost identical to Evan's.

 

[TNRGreene]

We had a set of 4 scales that did up to 8K.

We did not test any diesels (too heavy), but we did several gassers in several different styles/years to discuss the advantages of wheelbase. One of the many things we tried that day was take a 6 liter gas 2500HD and see what happened with torsion bars up and down (trying to settle a similar debate). Obviously it weighed within 2 lbs each time, but when the bars were down (no weight on the back), there was slightly more weight on the front axle than with the bars cranked (weight transferred to the back as the bars cranked). I don't remember exactly how much but it was less than 100 lbs.

The thing I found interesting is we put three small guys in the back sitting off the tailgate (combined weight of ~530) to simulate hitch downforce. We found more weight (compared with just bar cranking) transferred to the rear axle with the bars cranked than with them dropped (I assume it would only be worse with a sled pulling down).

We also found that more weight percentage wise lifted off the front and transferred to the rear on short wheelbase trucks (which most people thought would happen).

Another interesting thing we found is we took my 1980 reg cab longbed and a 4 door shortbed ~98 V10. My truck weighed 6070 and the other weighed 6720 in daily trim. My truck had a 58.8/41.2 front to rear weight split and the other was 58.6/41.4 front to rear weight split (pretty dang close). We weighted mine at the front of the bed to equal 6720 and found it changed my weight ratio to 56.9/43.1

There has been talk of upping the weight class to allow newer vehicles to pull as many weigh more than 6200 from the factory, but also coming up with a way to keep it fair (other than hanging weight) for the Old Skoolers......

As for the torsion bars pushing down on the front.....Nope. If you took the torsion bars out and the weight of the truck was supported by the front axle there would be more weight on the front end (overall truck weight would be the same........minus the missing torsion bars). As the torsion bars suspend the front of the chassis/body above the axle, weight is transferred to the back, the higher the front the more weight transfer to the rear and the less pressure on the front tires. You might say there is more push downward as the springs are loaded/tensioned but for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction (lifting of the chassis and weight transfer).

I could see cranking tbars if CV shaft angles are negative while pulling (i.e. hanging insane amounts of weight off the front) to help keep them level, or if your suspension is wacky and the rear ends up hooking better than your front (such as 2WD pullers or those without a front locker).

Is this not what I said way early or am I not reading this correctly?

if you preload the TB's it becomes easier to "lift" the front end of the truck making the weight transfer off of the front to the rear.
But what do I know, we only have sand trucks down here

 

[malibu795]

Here are some pics of some trucks from Ohio this year. I like the look of the Dodge and it works. I think I might give it a shot with my new ECLB. Harold Lyle's truck is setup almost identical to Evan's.

was that the last pull in london this year?