Pics of the New Pulling Setup

[RENODMAX]

Im sure you can read books all day long, and get technical with it, if thats what you want to beleive, is books, run your tbars down all the way all the time. If it was all about weight transfer, which i really dont buy, then a stock truck with the bars cranked all the way down, would probably do better, cause most lift kits level trucks up, where a stock one would set a lot lower in the front. If it was all about weight transfer, ifs wouldnt hook up better than a solid axle. I ran my tbars all the way down when i first started too, just like everyone told me, then i started to try stuff different. Books will take you so far, then experience will take you even further.

I never said running your tbars down was better. I said that the front gets oo much lift that way. I've seen many a good four link, regular leaf spring setup etc. I do have experience but like Josh said this is science. I read because people that are much smarter than I will ever be are kind enough to share their knowledge. And if you don't believe that a purpose built suspension is for the transfer of force from one object to the other then I don't know what to tell you

 

[redws6rocket]

Spring force CANNOT hold tires down. I'll ask Russ which book he used for his four link. There's more information on this very subject in there than any of us could remember.

take your truck out one weekend and sled pull it. first weekend, let your bars all the way down like what "everyone" says to do. you will hook to the sled, start to take off and i do not care how much weight is hanging off the front, your front end will come up about 4 or 5 inches. it feels like much more in the truck, you start off down the track pulling with the rear of the truck only, finally you spin out and see huge ruts in the back and nothing in the front. now its the next weekend you have cranked the bars back up and have some preload on the control arms. you take off, your truck never rises in the front, you go down track pulling with the front and rear. you spin out and have left an even 2" rut at all four corners now. lightbulb clicks, i might be on to something!! you are missing the point, i as well as rob know what it is all about. think outside the box, a book is not always full of the right answers.

 

[Rhall]

I never said running your tbars down was better. I said that the front gets oo much lift that way. I've seen many a good four link, regular leaf spring setup etc. I do have experience but like Josh said this is science. I read because people that are much smarter than I will ever be are kind enough to share their knowledge. And if you don't believe that a purpose built suspension is for the transfer of force from one object to the other then I don't know what to tell you

Im really not talking about purpose built suspensions, last time i checked, theres not too many 2.6/2.8 pullers running around with built 4 links. Im not sure if i misunderstood you or not, but obviously you have misunderstood me, i know how weight transfer works, but i dont think thats why ifs does better considering the front comes up more on ifs trucks than it does on the dodges/fords (its even worse with the bars down all the way you can clearly see this in videos). I read two, but theres a point where you actually have to try things weekend after weekend before you can say what works or not. One or two or three sled pulls isnt going to get you where you need to be, and either is drag racing set up.

 

[RENODMAX]

take your truck out one weekend and sled pull it. first weekend, let your bars all the way down like what "everyone" says to do. you will hook to the sled, start to take off and i do not care how much weight is hanging off the front, your front end will come up about 4 or 5 inches. it feels like much more in the truck, you start off down the track pulling with the rear of the truck only, finally you spin out and see huge ruts in the back and nothing in the front. now its the next weekend you have cranked the bars back up and have some preload on the control arms. you take off, your truck never rises in the front, you go down track pulling with the front and rear. you spin out and have left an even 2" rut at all four corners now. lightbulb clicks, i might be on to something!! you are missing the point, i as well as rob know what it is all about. think outside the box, a book is not always full of the right answers.

I never said letting your bars down was a good idea. Go back and read. Im not saying that having the bars up a little is a bad idea, im just telling you it doesnt work the way people think it does by "holding the tires to the ground"

 

[maxaholic]

When I pull I run my bars all the way down and will continue to. The whole way down the track I have nuthin but clods flying out from the front tires. So you can't fell me my front tires aren't biting. But just so you know I am not saying what your doing is wrong. Hell I kinda want to try it.

 

[malibu795]

Go put your truck on a scale with the bars down then crank them up. I bet you don't see much if any front axle weight difference. A spring cannot push the tires harder into the ground unless it has something to push against (weight). It's science...

I am not saying lifted trucks don't grip better, but if they do, it's due to weight transfer.

how about this...
put same truck on the scales.. under the front tires


then simulatin weight tranfer to the rearby jacking hte front up 3" from resting positon.. do this with both t/b all the way out and tension on the t/b


becha theres a difference in weight at the tires.

 

[RENODMAX]

how about this...
put same truck on the scales.. under the front tires


then simulatin weight tranfer to the rearby jacking hte front up 3" from resting positon.. do this with both t/b all the way out and tension on the t/b


becha theres a difference in weight at the tires.

Doesn't matter you can't generate a lifting force like that and expect it to be the same as the lift you get from the weight transfer from actual movement. It won't be in a straight vertical plane.

 

[malibu795]

Doesn't matter you can't generate a lifting force like that and expect it to be the same as the lift you get from the weight transfer from actual movement. It won't be in a straight vertical plane.

i didnt say excat...

lifting the front is lifting the front... the front suspseion doesnt really care weather its a jack lift ing 4" or 40k on a hitch pulling the front up 4" front is still lifted 4"

the question still is does tightening the t/b help.. IMO yes..

on a weight truck @ 8000lb say theres 5,000 on front axle. including the extra 1000 on the nose.

we already know that the stock 4,000gaw the tb are not strong enough to hold hte truck off the bump stop with the bolt outs.. there is not enough pre-load..

lets say the t/b have 25% preload for givin weight with no bolts and fully compressed. mind you at full drop about 9" the tb keys will flop around int he cross member wiht no keys.
with the truck in the static stance with all the wieght is on the front axle there will be 5000lb between the wheels and the ground. this is bu the mechanical coupleling between the bumpstop and lower A-arm.

raise the forn 4" and one could easily pull 50% or more weight off the tires.. why?
we have rasied the truck... now the only thing shoving the tires down is the t/b which in that setup was full pre-loaded at full compression.. now we have kill 75-85% of the preload since since hte key started to become loose by 6" of droop wiht no key..
out of the 5,000lb avalible we are talkign 1000-1500 of weight give or take at the ground on the tires..


next example..
same wieght no tighten/pre-load the t/b so the truck just barely sits on the bumpstop at full trim....
from experience we know that it only take 2-3 turns to contact the keys are full droop.. but that will not lift even a stock front end off the bump stops..
and at full droop there is not slack in key about the t/b
now with the t/b pre-loaded so the truck site just above the bump stops and we raise the front 4" there will be more weight at the tires.. thus giving them more traction.. due to more weight beign transfered to the tires.


on the lifted trucks... are they set are full droop or are they pre-loaded?

 

[Rhall]

There also more to sled pulling than just weight transfer, if you run your bars down all the way and the front comes up 5 inches, youve lost quite a bit of hitch height,(even if no weight tranfered, it will hurt you bad) if you run your bars down around 2 or 3 inches, and your front doesn raise as much, and thats what you had your hitch height for, youve lost less. Sled pulling is probably one of the most time consuming things you can do, if you want to win. These how to stickys on all the forums will get you close, but if you want to win, you have to try different things. Theres no book or article that will get you where you need to be.

 

[Rhall]

Travis, are you running 2" blocks in the back? Thanks.

bump on this Travis.

 

[dmaxfireman]

at the end of last season i had my bars all the way down and having a lot of trouble keeping the tires hooked up in the rear. then would get moving and had my one front spin out. i got a straight centerlink for next season and will be bringing the nose back up a little at a time til i find my sweet spot. maybe an elocker will help but i am convinced i did not have enough rear axle weight for traction. on one of my last pulls i put the twins on and pulled the unlimited class, my 33x13.5 tires were just spinning and when i watched he video you can see the rear tires just throwing mud and not hooking the front was definitly doing more work.

 

[bullfrogjohnson]

bump on this Travis.

I run 2" blocks in the rear and run just a small bit of preload. I have not touched my adjuster bolts since I installed the lift. I would like to build a custom hitch for the rear and ditch the 2" blocks. I have founds that no matter what I do the front always levels with the rear and I would like to get the rear end lower so the front will stay planted.

 

[redws6rocket]

at the end of last season i had my bars all the way down and having a lot of trouble keeping the tires hooked up in the rear. then would get moving and had my one front spin out. i got a straight centerlink for next season and will be bringing the nose back up a little at a time til i find my sweet spot. maybe an elocker will help but i am convinced i did not have enough rear axle weight for traction. on one of my last pulls i put the twins on and pulled the unlimited class, my 33x13.5 tires were just spinning and when i watched he video you can see the rear tires just throwing mud and not hooking the front was definitly doing more work.

an elocker will make a huge difference for ya. or if your cheap like i was, welding the the front end up works just as well!

 

[bullfrogjohnson]

an elocker will make a huge difference for ya. or if your cheap like i was, welding the the front end up works just as well!

I am going to weld mine when I put my gears in

 

[dmaxfireman]

welding eh? thats gotta f-up 4wd driving in the snowy months tho right? lol i'd probably forget to dis-engage the 4wd and blow the carrier away.

would the front tires slip enough o not do damage??

 

[redws6rocket]

welding eh? thats gotta f-up 4wd driving in the snowy months tho right? lol i'd probably forget to dis-engage the 4wd and blow the carrier away.

would the front tires slip enough o not do damage??

to be honest it is not to bad, my truck has a spool and the front welded it gets around awesome in the snow. thing only things i have noticed is you can barely turn corners on dry pavement and the truck will pull you one way or the other on dry pavement, in the snow it turns great. i spend most time in 2wd unless i can not get through some stuff, then switch it and switch it right back.

 

[bullfrogjohnson]

welding eh? thats gotta f-up 4wd driving in the snowy months tho right? lol i'd probably forget to dis-engage the 4wd and blow the carrier away.

would the front tires slip enough o not do damage??

Welding should be fine for most people. When the front is not engaged the pass side axle spins freely allowing the truck to be driven normally.

 

[TNRGreene]

how about this...
put same truck on the scales.. under the front tires


then simulatin weight tranfer to the rearby jacking hte front up 3" from resting positon.. do this with both t/b all the way out and tension on the t/b


becha theres a difference in weight at the tires.

I talked to my buddy with scales. We will simulate pulling down on the hitch like the sled would & see if this is indeed true. Hopefully this week

 

[malibu795]

I talked to my buddy with scales. We will simulate pulling down on the hitch like the sled would & see if this is indeed true. Hopefully this week

cool

 

[TNRGreene]

We've only have had a few chime in on this. I can tell you we lower as far as we can. We have 3trucks running this setup, 4" TC lift. We have "played" a bunch & have not found pre loading to help. What are the trucks out of Burkhard's shop doing? Maybe Matt Gainer, Pops, Johnboy, the boys out of Danville. I understand the fine tuning thing & that it's different for different tracks.

My buddy called and said his scales are NOT large enough to test.
A test for Myth Busters?