Off to banned camp
- Thread starter duratothemax
- Start date
Now what in the hell does Trentnell have to do with this? Do you have a problem with him too?
TAKES A BIGGER BSer to know one! touche to you too, i'm not surprised to see you here playing mr "i got screwed on 9 ats trannies" . dude, you're in the tranny buisiness shit happens all the time. you win some and lose some. my tranny guy has shit like this happen all the time, and comebacks are very rare (builder error) parts suck sometimes and you have to make it right for the customer.
Look on the bright side. Summer towing season is coming up, maybe someone will start an Overheat thread that will distract everyone...
:rofl:
just subscribing
I see dmaxvaz got you excited. :rofl:
just subscribing
Just an FYI you can subscribe without posting. Thread tools.. Subscribe to this thread
What was i thinking then you wouldn't be adding to your post count :frog:
i am flattered you think of me so often :angel::joker::hello: :rofl::rofl: ... and i have bought parts from mike and he has helped me many times. if in your eyes that makes his opinion of me scewed because he actually knows me and has had real conversations with me then i dont know what to tell ya.
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yes he does
i have more money than sence, in case you didnt know all mechanics that work for the government are rich :rofl:
Seriously, 3 to 4 years later and we are still talking about an isolated delaminating issues? The horse has been dead for 3 years now, was there an issue? yes there absolutely was and it was corrected. We had a bad batch of clutches that would not hold a bond, the problem was the glue the manufacturer supplied us was a water soluble glue, which is what every other clutch manufacturer at the time was using and continues to use today . To bond the clutches to the steels a chemical is sprayed onto the glue, this chemical makes the glue tacky, the clutch is then placed on a steel core and put into a bonder with two plates that are heated to 425 F. A hydraulic ram then compresses the two plates together for about 14 minutes. After the clutch is bonded and allowed to cool, compressed air (120 PSI) is blown between the steel and the friction to ensure the two pieces are boned properly. Now going back to the water soluble friction material, this has been a problem in the converter manufacturing world for years. After the clutch material (friction) is bonded to the steel plate the friction needs to stay bonded to the steel or there are big problems. If the clutch friction material becomes separated from the core then that is what is called a de-lamination. Water is a common cause of this, especially if a transmission cooler explodes and the engine coolant is allowed to enter the cooler lines contaminating the transmission fluid. All is fine for a while tell the bonding agent is broken down causing a delamination. It takes sometime but eventually what happens is the moisture soaks into the glue of the clutch and reacts with adhesion to loosen up and cause the friction material to come off. This is a bad situation for everyone and we do everything we can to get through it .We have since changed the friction material and the glue, it is now an Epoxy based glue. The friction material is now made from a combination of carbon , cellulose, Kevlar, and two other materials that we will not divulge. This has proved to be a fantastic friction for all applications form stock to modified power levels. This friction material is also what allows for the Viskus drive in the Five Star converter to work.
We spent a lot of time and money researching a true remedy. This is what we came up with, the two areas of concern were friction material and a bonding process that would never come off. We needed to offer a friction surface that provided a high coefficient of friction but still offers a smooth engagement when applied. This can be a real challenge because a friction typically ether wants to slip or grip to the steel surface of the clutch plate, not much in between. We worked several year formulating our friction material that is used in our converters so we could offer a clutch that will have a very strong friction coefficient and allow slip when the plates are squeezed together. This multi-grade friction material acts like Kevlar when the plates are sliding together and like cellulose when the plates are stopped. When used with transmission fluid the friction coefficient changes state during the clutch application. Because of this we can build a friction clutch element like we manufacture for the Allison transmission in the C-3 clutch pack without the cooling slots. This gives us 170% more clutch surface per clutch plate and increases our average lever arm increasing the torque capacity of the clutch pack by over 48%. Because of the friction material that we formulated we do not need to worry about the highly modulated clutch being damaged because of slop during the apply and we will never get a chatter at the end of the shift. As for the glue that bonds the friction to the clutch; We also sourced out an aerospace epoxy that will not delam from heat or water. Since we have used this bonding agent in all of our converters and clutch packs we have experienced no problems. Today we get several competitors transmissions and converters into ATS that are sent in to us as cores, this is still a somewhat common problem we see when these units are torn down. We feel very confident that we have utilized our combined efforts to offer a superior produce as you see in our clutch kits and all of our converters. I hope this helps clear up some of the questions that are out there regarding out friction clutches and manufacturing techniques.
Yes we knew about the issue after sending the material back to the manufacture for a failure analysis, after they informed us of the problem we immediately stopped using the Clutches and went with the Altos until we sourced the manufacturer we are using still today. The problem was there where still clutches out there in ATS built transmissions and also in transmissions others have built. Some of the failures happened within a few weeks some of them took a year before the clutches finally delaminated..
A Bag of Parts ????? If a customer purchased a full transmission and had a clutch failure a new unit was sent to them in replacement, If the customer had purchased a rebuild kit they were sent a replacement clutches.
As for Wade not sure why this is relevant to anything, pretty sure the shop he went to had already been selling ATS and Suncoast . Regardless if a customer wanted a ATS or Suncoast im sure they wanted to be able to get what the customers wanted.
Mike Meinecke
ATS Diesel
We spent a lot of time and money researching a true remedy. This is what we came up with, the two areas of concern were friction material and a bonding process that would never come off. We needed to offer a friction surface that provided a high coefficient of friction but still offers a smooth engagement when applied. This can be a real challenge because a friction typically ether wants to slip or grip to the steel surface of the clutch plate, not much in between. We worked several year formulating our friction material that is used in our converters so we could offer a clutch that will have a very strong friction coefficient and allow slip when the plates are squeezed together. This multi-grade friction material acts like Kevlar when the plates are sliding together and like cellulose when the plates are stopped. When used with transmission fluid the friction coefficient changes state during the clutch application. Because of this we can build a friction clutch element like we manufacture for the Allison transmission in the C-3 clutch pack without the cooling slots. This gives us 170% more clutch surface per clutch plate and increases our average lever arm increasing the torque capacity of the clutch pack by over 48%. Because of the friction material that we formulated we do not need to worry about the highly modulated clutch being damaged because of slop during the apply and we will never get a chatter at the end of the shift. As for the glue that bonds the friction to the clutch; We also sourced out an aerospace epoxy that will not delam from heat or water. Since we have used this bonding agent in all of our converters and clutch packs we have experienced no problems. Today we get several competitors transmissions and converters into ATS that are sent in to us as cores, this is still a somewhat common problem we see when these units are torn down. We feel very confident that we have utilized our combined efforts to offer a superior produce as you see in our clutch kits and all of our converters. I hope this helps clear up some of the questions that are out there regarding out friction clutches and manufacturing techniques.
Yes we knew about the issue after sending the material back to the manufacture for a failure analysis, after they informed us of the problem we immediately stopped using the Clutches and went with the Altos until we sourced the manufacturer we are using still today. The problem was there where still clutches out there in ATS built transmissions and also in transmissions others have built. Some of the failures happened within a few weeks some of them took a year before the clutches finally delaminated..
A Bag of Parts ????? If a customer purchased a full transmission and had a clutch failure a new unit was sent to them in replacement, If the customer had purchased a rebuild kit they were sent a replacement clutches.
As for Wade not sure why this is relevant to anything, pretty sure the shop he went to had already been selling ATS and Suncoast . Regardless if a customer wanted a ATS or Suncoast im sure they wanted to be able to get what the customers wanted.
Mike Meinecke
ATS Diesel
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wow the stars aligned and everybody got pms on the same day:rofl:
peoples opinions are just that opinions
this got blown way out of proportion!
I'm glad you came over larry, adult supervision was needed
I'm not going to share my opinion because guess what, NO ONE GIVES A CHIT!
DS = Dip SHT