Nitromethane and alcohol:

[McRat]

Used this too It is very-very bad shit!!! Upon dumping it into the fuel, you must use it within an hour or it's gone. I know this b/c we used to race with Don Garrletts fuel guy Art Malone.

Chris, maybe you could chat with some of the fuel guy's at the next big event and get us some info

I need to check and see if there's any diesel vehicles at the rent a car place so I can pour a can of the Ol' Mighty in it and report the results.

Seems you will have to first mix the nitromethane with a dissolving agent like nitropropane, then mix it with the diesel. As the molecule gets longer, it dissolves more and more into diesel. Nitromethane is the least soluble, but it's brothers are more soluble.

 

[LB7Diesel]

I knew I should have taken Chemistry, damn it.

Isn't that Shell racing diesel fuel propane based?

 

[McRat]

Here's how I understand the dissolving thing as it applies to fuels:

There are 2 basic "tails" on fuels: The OH tip, found in water, alcohols, and the nitromethane family. And the CxHx tip, which is found in hydrocarbon fuels like diesel, gasoline, but also in alcohols and the nitromethane family on the opposite end.

The OH tip is very strong like a magnet, and the CH tip is weaker. Stuff with an OH tip mixes well with each other since it's such a strong pull. But in order for CH stuff to mix, the chain must be longer to get the "pull" to keep them mixed.

So water will mix with alcohols, and I would guess nitros, but won't mix with hydrocarbons. There is no "pull". If you want to mix water with hydrocarbons, you will need something that has both kinds of ends like alcohol to act as a dissolving agent.

The longer nitro molecules will act just like alcohols, dissolving both types of "tails". So you could use alcohol or long nitros to mix nitromethane with diesel would be my guess.

 

[McRat]

Trivia:

2-Ethylhexyl nitrate (C8H17NO3) is a related compound to the nitromethane family.

It is an active ingredient in many cetane boosters. It is an oxygenated hydrocarbon with a nitrogen bond, just like the nitromethane and it's kin.

This would explain the orange flames from large doses of it in the fuel.

It was tested as safe in an SAE paper that ran it mixed with #2 for 1000hrs in a Detroit 60 series against a control engine. It actually reduced wear.

This might be the reason for running large doses of it for racing, it's an oxygenating fuel.

 

[UNBROKEN]

So we agree that the 12V guys aren't using nitromethane to "cheat" ?

I don't think either of us think running additves is cheating in any way.

 

[McRat]

So we agree that the 12V guys aren't using nitromethane to "cheat" ?

I don't think either of us think running additves is cheating in any way.

You and your "cheating",

Cheating is defined as not doing what the Dodge guys want you to do last I checked.

That chemical is the prime active ingredient in every MSDS data sheet I've checked so far on Cetane Boosters. It is an oxygenated fuel, not a diesel fuel.

If you are using oxygenating agents to increase power (using more than recommended) on overfueled engines, a claim to be running straight #2 is not correct. It's not cheating, but it's not diesel either.

Much like running CNG I suppose, but in the opposite direction. Wait, that WOULD be cheating.

 

[Mike L.]

So we agree that the 12V guys aren't using nitromethane to "cheat" ?

I don't think either of us think running additves is cheating in any way.

I use Primrose for street driving cause it does give me a little more power. It is noticable. I don't think that off the shefl products are cheating and I believe 50% of all diesels owners use some kind of addative.
I realy don't know how much nitro would help but I don't think it would help for very long. :baby:

 

[McRat]

I use Primrose for street driving cause it does give me a little more power. It is noticable. I don't think that off the shefl products are cheating and I believe 50% of all diesels owners use some kind of addative.
I realy don't know how much nitro would help but I don't think it would help for very long. :baby:

Are you using enough to blow orange flames out a 10' long exhaust tube?

No, it is not cheating. It's better technology. Oxygenated gasoline has been around a LONG time, and the best unleaded racing gasolines are all oxygenated.

Now, is running some CNG to improve mileage "cheating"? I don't think so. All it is, is shorter molecules that are just like diesel. Since they are short, they are gases instead of liquids. It is petro-based, not a nitrated alcohol like Nitro and it's cousins.

 

[UNBROKEN]

My stance would be as long as #2 diesel is your main fuel then technically it's "diesel"

We all run additives of some sort....and I know I put in 2 bottles when I' going to the track in less than 1/2 a tank of fuel.

I'm not sure about these synthetic diesels yet...but if they work good I think we should embrace them as "diesel" and not cry if someone uses it.

Also....I don't think CNG as a mileage enhancer is cheating...but running CNG as the primary fuel...say with a crap ton of nitrous on top of it wouldn't exactly be on the up-n-up.

 

[UNBROKEN]

That means Cummins 12v. I'm sure by now everyone has seen Cummins engines that are glowing orange out the exhaust.

I wonder if this explains why they don't just run nitrous oxide. Perhaps nitrous is not compatible with nitromethane? Dunno. What I do know is that the Dodge boys will take every possible advantage, but pretend like they are running otherwise. So big claims of #2 only Dodge power might not be what it appears. They are just using a form of liquid nitrous.

What does this insinuate Pat ?

Me and my cheating ? Those are your words buddy.........

 

[McRat]

What does this insinuate Pat ?

Me and my cheating ? Those are your words buddy.........

Big doses of oxygenating agents ain't #2 Only. But it's not cheating. It's misrepresentation at best.

Two bottles of Stanadyne ain't blowing flames out your tailpipe. You're "safe". :rofl:

Engines that are underfueled need more diesel. Engines that are overfueled need more oxygen. CNG/Propane does for the Dmax what oxygenating agents do for the Cummins. So you would assume that both would be treated equally, but perhaps that is not the case.

Synthetic diesel is diesel. One is more "pure", so perhaps it is even more "diesel" than normal pump diesel is. The only way to tell them apart is to look for impurities in the fuel. The one that isn't pure is conventional #2.

Kinda like synthetic motor oil vs dino-oil. Synthetic is just more pure, both are hydrocarbons.

 

[UNBROKEN]

Fair enough...now go fix my user title. LOL
It should say Lead Moderator...not Lead *************


I know...off topic....so sue me.

 

[McRat]

Fair enough...now go fix my user title. LOL
It should say Lead Moderator...not Lead *************


I know...off topic....so sue me.

I didn't lock it, I just temporarily edited it. You can change it in your UserCP.

We do allow "troll ID's", but we also like poking them with sticks once and awhile.

 

[Kat]

Fair enough...now go fix my user title. LOL
It should say Lead Moderator...not Lead *************


I know...off topic....so sue me.

It's not locked but I did fix it

 

[LB7Diesel]

Trivia:

Nitronal aka 2-Ethylhexyl nitrate (C8H17NO3) is a related compound to the nitromethane family.

It is an active ingredient in many cetane boosters. It is an oxygenated hydrocarbon with a nitrogen bond, just like the nitromethane and it's kin.

This would explain the orange flames from large doses of it in the fuel.

It was tested as safe in an SAE paper that ran it mixed with #2 for 1000hrs in a Detroit 60 series against a control engine. It actually reduced wear.

This might be the reason for running large doses of it for racing, it's an oxygenating fuel.

Where can we buy this stuff Pat?

 

[UNBROKEN]

Thanks Kat. The word Moderator was filtered or something.

OK...back on topic........

 

[Mike L.]

Nitronal is a nitro glycerin pill for heart problems.

 

[McRat]

Where can we buy this stuff Pat?

It's about 20-40% of what all diesel treatment or cetane boosters are made of. Most of what's in the bottle is solvent(s), then the booster is that stuff.

Stanadyne:

#1 - Stoddard's Solvent (stuff you clean parts in, or dry cleaning fluid)
#2 - 2-Ethylhexyl nitrate (cetane booster)
#3 - Naphtha (lighter fluid, cleaning agent)
the rest are small %'s.

 

[McRat]

Nitronal is a nitro glycerin pill for heart problems.

DOH! You're right. They listed Nitronal as one of the nicknames for 2-Ethylhexyl nitrate, but that site was wrong. Nitronal is exactly nitroglycerin.

Damn internet. I'll punch Al Gore in the nose next time I see him.

 

[Mike L.]

DOH! You're right. They listed Nitronal as one of the nicknames for 2-Ethylhexyl nitrate, but that site was wrong. Nitronal is exactly nitroglycerin.

Damn internet. I'll punch Al Gore in the nose next time I see him.

I found out where to buy the real stuff. Advertisement is more power and less imissions. The rest of the info is scary. Wear breathing mask, can explode in heat,can kill sheep.