We were a little skeptic of the weight claims as well. We did some research and they assured us that the weight was correct and with all fluids to include fuel were full. According to the manufacture, a 4x4 standard cab long box would need to add 450# off the showroom floor to make weight.
New NHRDA rules
- Thread starter MadMooseEngineering
- Start date
We were a little skeptic of the weight claims as well. We did some research and they assured us that the weight was correct and with all fluids to include fuel were full. According to the manufacture, a 4x4 standard cab long box would need to add 450# off the showroom floor to make weight.
Without doing a search, I weighed every truck I bought within a day or two of purchase:
CCLB 4x4 = 7120lb
CCSB 4x4 = 6860?
ECSB 4x2 = 6080?
ECSB 4x4 = 6460?
I'd have to look them up, but those numbers are within 40lb, half tank, as delivered, no driver, at a certified scale. I have the slips somewhere. Since we sled pull, we need to know the base weights.
The further down the weight goes, the less it appears or functions as a 3/4t diesel street pickup truck.
I would say 80% or higher of the OEM diesel pickups are large cab 4x4 automatics. 2wd and RC's are rare, and potential quicker and faster than their 4x4 and large cab brethern.
And they are less safe. Most (all?) the diesel pickup crashes at the racetrack have been RC 2wd's. To encourage that design as a start point for a build is potentially hazardous.
While "some" claim it's due to the track length and inadequate NHRA safety req's, I have a hunch that 2wd are not as safe (since all the crashes started in the first 660) in heavy trucks.
Also, it's interesting to note that the Stuckey truck is the fastest in competition that I know of, and it's 2wd. Orange Crush is also very fast, another 2wd. So it's not like 2wd needs a handicap to compete.
I'd suggest 6000/6500 if it were me. This removes the incentive to build "purpose built" race trucks to run a Street class.
Again..... wow. I can't believe the dumb manufacturing gods would be publishing numbers taht far out of whack - like above on that link to the GMC site itself. What do they gain by giving such a misleading number (all racing purposes aside - i'm wondering why they report it so far off)?
I wonder if it's insurance or some other rating to make the trucks meet some governmental requirements or something... just seems odd that they would do that. Oh well - i'm just happy to have learned i dont have to run that class - i just want to run in the 12.0 index class - whichever one that turns out to be hopefully has some similar rules so i'm not racing against a 5000# tube chasis guy thats pulled about 500 HP out of his truck to slow it down enough
I'm still going to be struggling to get TO the 12.0
I wonder if it's insurance or some other rating to make the trucks meet some governmental requirements or something... just seems odd that they would do that. Oh well - i'm just happy to have learned i dont have to run that class - i just want to run in the 12.0 index class - whichever one that turns out to be hopefully has some similar rules so i'm not racing against a 5000# tube chasis guy thats pulled about 500 HP out of his truck to slow it down enough
I'm still going to be struggling to get TO the 12.0
It's pretty easy to resolve this. What city do you live in, and where's the nearest truck stop or farm supply?
That's a typo. Notice the gas curb weight is perfectly identical to the diesel.
This is GM's advertised "lightest weight" for the 2500HD (RCLB gas 2wd) = 5328lb
I completely agree - if you want the Pro Street class to grow you are going to have to force the purpose built race trucks into it somehow. And if you want the true street trucks to continue to have fun and compete in the Super Street class you are going to have to level the playing field. Otherwise you will end up with Sportsman class that's too slow for us to have any fun in and then a bunch of purpose built drag trucks making the SS class no fun. I completely agree that 6000 for 2WD with full slicks and 6500 for 4WD with DOT tires would be very fair for everyone with true street trucks.
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While I don't agree with indexing Super Street, I think a good goal is figure out tech rules that keep the safety req's in Roll-Bar range (10.00 and slower).
A decent cage is going to severely impair it's street use, and few are going to want to take that plunge with their daily driver. No, a rollbar isn't without drawbacks either, but it's less intrusive.
A decent cage is going to severely impair it's street use, and few are going to want to take that plunge with their daily driver. No, a rollbar isn't without drawbacks either, but it's less intrusive.
There needs to be a class for the TRUE Street driven trucks then... chances are I won't be competing in any NHRDA events... it is no fun to run against 10 second trucks. I will never put a Roll Bar in my truck as its a DD. It seems you have to be capable of running 10's in an NHRDA event or race in the Sportsman class against trucks in the 15.xx range = NO fun
I think the ET class is the true street driven truck - with minor mods....
The ET classes are quite fun to run in i think, they are my preferred class to run in. Slower or faster - everyone has an identical chance to win.
Then we move on to the index classes - these are basically the same as an ET class, other than the 'dial in' is chosen for you. Either your truck is capable of running there or its not. It's bracket style racing still - but a narrower field because the trucks have to be (usually) fairly heavily modified to get to run close to the index. Sure - the 10 second trucks might be in this class too depending on whatever ends up being rules for letting them in or not....
However, that 10 second truck still can't go faster than 12.0s.... if they do, they lose unless the other guy gives it up for some reason. I think a 12.0 index is a reasonable index to have for whatever 'class' this has traditionally been in the past....
A street driven, daily driven, fully dressed truck, is still possible to get to 12.0s with some work. Mines not there yet. It will be though. The 12.0 class seems to usually have a fair selection of trucks, and payouts are higher for this class than the ET class. Thats the biggest reason i want to get there..... I'll probably run both classes actually just because i enjoy the ET class style. the index classes are basically heads up though... so some of the fun of running down them 15 second trucks doesnt exist in the index classes...
I guess to each their own though. Those are just my opinions...
The ET classes are quite fun to run in i think, they are my preferred class to run in. Slower or faster - everyone has an identical chance to win.
Then we move on to the index classes - these are basically the same as an ET class, other than the 'dial in' is chosen for you. Either your truck is capable of running there or its not. It's bracket style racing still - but a narrower field because the trucks have to be (usually) fairly heavily modified to get to run close to the index. Sure - the 10 second trucks might be in this class too depending on whatever ends up being rules for letting them in or not....
However, that 10 second truck still can't go faster than 12.0s.... if they do, they lose unless the other guy gives it up for some reason. I think a 12.0 index is a reasonable index to have for whatever 'class' this has traditionally been in the past....
A street driven, daily driven, fully dressed truck, is still possible to get to 12.0s with some work. Mines not there yet. It will be though. The 12.0 class seems to usually have a fair selection of trucks, and payouts are higher for this class than the ET class. Thats the biggest reason i want to get there..... I'll probably run both classes actually just because i enjoy the ET class style. the index classes are basically heads up though... so some of the fun of running down them 15 second trucks doesnt exist in the index classes...
I guess to each their own though. Those are just my opinions...
I have won many S.S. and Pro Street races with my 12.0 DD LBZ. One event this year, I was the slowest truck in Super Street class of 7 entries, I ended up winning. Not bragging, just pointing out that a fast truck isn't always needed.
Are the rules perfect, no, not sure you could ever make everyone happy. Biggest thing is to race and have a good time. Show up and support this sport. This rule change hasn't changed much, and we can still run S.S. with a few minor changes, but we are going to try the pro street boys back east.
Are the rules perfect, no, not sure you could ever make everyone happy. Biggest thing is to race and have a good time. Show up and support this sport. This rule change hasn't changed much, and we can still run S.S. with a few minor changes, but we are going to try the pro street boys back east.
At a minimum, it adds a passenger door bar, front hoop, and head bars above both doors, but I'm not sure the minimum is what you want if you really do need it. It's our frame being inboard that is the problem.
I'd strongly suggest rocker bars, and lower crossbars on the hoops to resist side intrusion. Just a door bar mounted to hoops that have no lower support won't do much.
Ask Mike L how easy it is to climb in Casper.
I UNDERSTAND ALOT OF WHAT GUYS ARE SAYING IN HERE , BUT THERE WERE MONTHS OF PEOPLE MAKING SUGESTIONS , AND ALOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THIS THREAD WERENT CHIMING IN WHEN THE INPUT WAS NEEDED , NOW THAT THE RULES ARE SET IN STONE ALL THE SUDDEN PEOPLE CARE ? IT DOESNT MATTER TO ME BECAUSE I AM NOT RACING SUPER STREET NEXT YEAR . I DONT AGREE WITH SOME OF THE CHANGES BUT I THINK ITS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION . AND I AGREE WITH ROB GO TO RACES TO HAVE FUN , I RACED SUPER STREET LAST YEAR WITH A MUCH SLOWER TRUCK THAN MOST AND IT NEVER STOPPED MY FROM TRAVELING OR RACING , AND I STILL HAD A GOOD TIME WHETHER I WON OR NOT .
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EDIT : sorry for the caps didnt notice
EDIT : sorry for the caps didnt notice
you dont look when you type!? lol. me either...
The rules are the rules... you're right people like me missed out - i didn't know there was an open forum on the subject - but it doesnt matter whether its the track, the organization, or some guy at the track PMS'ing over what the other guys has because of so and so... as has been said, can't make everyone happy.
I think this is a good spot to maybe get some people thinking for the 'next' batch of rules though... a good open forum to chat about what is and isn't a 'good idea'. Nothing more than that going on here i dont think.... well, other than a honest debate about what our trucks weigh whether they're green meanie's or blue toads
I still see a need for a ~11.80 Index class. There are a lot of trucks out there that build right to the rollbar point, then stop. I don't agree on 12.0 simply because 11.999 is a full second faster than 12.000.
And you can perhaps run 11.80 with stock internals.
I still see a need for a ~11.80 Index class. There are a lot of trucks out there that build right to the rollbar point, then stop. I don't agree on 12.0 simply because 11.999 is a full second faster than 12.000.
And you can perhaps run 11.80 with stock internals.
Ok ok .... i surrender!. 11.80 is the new benchmark for my thick hipped truck..
I think that is 800 - 820 HP according to the calculator, or close. 8200 pounds and then break down, finally, pull a tailgate and back seats and truck box out.... And i dont have to run right on the 11.80 obviously - just get close and try for a good light
I just wanna run where there's some money too.... Lord knows i've spent enough getting the thing to this point... especially on street tires and 1.8x 60 foots.... it's just too big!!! :happy2:
I UNDERSTAND ALOT OF WHAT GUYS ARE SAYING IN HERE , BUT THERE WERE MONTHS OF PEOPLE MAKING SUGESTIONS , AND ALOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THIS THREAD WERENT CHIMING IN WHEN THE INPUT WAS NEEDED , NOW THAT THE RULES ARE SET IN STONE ALL THE SUDDEN PEOPLE CARE ? IT DOESNT MATTER TO ME BECAUSE I AM NOT RACING SUPER STREET NEXT YEAR . I DONT AGREE WITH SOME OF THE CHANGES BUT I THINK ITS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION . AND I AGREE WITH ROB GO TO RACES TO HAVE FUN , I RACED SUPER STREET LAST YEAR WITH A MUCH SLOWER TRUCK THAN MOST AND IT NEVER STOPPED MY FROM TRAVELING OR RACING , AND I STILL HAD A GOOD TIME WHETHER I WON OR NOT .
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The rules look great to me personally, since I could probably run all 5 classes if I'm reading them correctly, and be competitive in at least 2, if not three.
I don't think they reflect what's best for the typical Dmax hotrodder today though. If I did see a request for input on the rules, I most likely responded.
to be honest i dont spend money on my truck to be able to race at certain events. i do it because i want to go fast. so at the end of the day the rules are there. if i dont like them no one is making me race.
I just want to point out one guys "race truck" could be another guys daily driver.
I'm building a truck to run SS. It's going to be on the trailer to every race. It's not going to be anything super crazy. I just don't want the headache of driving the thing 500 miles to a race and having something go wrong. You push them hard, they will break...it's not if.....it's when. Yes it might be a long time. Still having to sweat that subtracts from the fun for me. If somebody daily drives their SS truck then good for them.
That being said, I'll probably cage it even though it's not going to see 9's. It won't be driven on the street anyway. No such thing as too safe for me. And I'm leaving the A/C out which I would never do on a true daily driver. No point in having it cluttering up the engine compartment since it will never be used.
I'm putting 2 streetable seats in it, and leaving the interior intact.
I'm building a truck to run SS. It's going to be on the trailer to every race. It's not going to be anything super crazy. I just don't want the headache of driving the thing 500 miles to a race and having something go wrong. You push them hard, they will break...it's not if.....it's when. Yes it might be a long time. Still having to sweat that subtracts from the fun for me. If somebody daily drives their SS truck then good for them.
That being said, I'll probably cage it even though it's not going to see 9's. It won't be driven on the street anyway. No such thing as too safe for me. And I'm leaving the A/C out which I would never do on a true daily driver. No point in having it cluttering up the engine compartment since it will never be used.
I'm putting 2 streetable seats in it, and leaving the interior intact.
"Fast Frankie" called me asking what is needed to switch his truck over to 2wd.
That should be interesting.
That should be interesting.