Lets discuss Injectors, big fuel

[TNRGreene]

This is a spin off thread.
I'm interested as to what is killing motors. Is it timing, PW, duel fuelers or large turbos.
Can we get specifics listed so to try to figure this out?
What are the specifics?

What happened hole in piston, bent rod-

How many miles at this level-

#1- Injectors-

#2- PW-

#3- Timing-

#4- Fueling-

#5- Turbo

#6- Motor built or not-

#7- LIft Pumps

 

[Drholliday]

I've been curious about this too. I've noticed that most of the trucks that break pistons (LBZ/LMM) have had dual fuelers and/or bigger turbos. Just what I've noticed, but never wrote them all down.

Mine is still going strong, been tuned for over 25k miles and over 100 passes at the strip.

#1- Injectors- stock LBZ

#2- PW- IIRC 3000

#3- Timing- 30

#4- Fueling- stock CP3 with AD150 LP

#5- Turbo- stock

#6- Motor built or not- not

#7- LIft Pumps- listed under fueling AD150

 

[Brayden]

Snipped from another thread...


So lets talk about it then.... Im sure this will get split.

Me running 500hp on stock turbo stock sticks McRat tuning - pop.

Simons buddies LMM above similar story - pop.

Henrys was stock motor stock turbo I beleive - pop.

Chad Alligator was same story - pop.

Tommy had dual fuelers but pop.

WikdLMM stock stock pop.

 

[TNRGreene]

So lets talk about it then.... Im sure this will get split.

Me running 500hp on stock turbo stock sticks McRat tuning - pop.

Simons buddies LMM above similar story - pop.

Henrys was stock motor stock turbo I beleive - pop.

Chad Alligator was same story - pop.

Tommy had dual fuelers but pop.

WikdLMM stock stock pop.

Hope they will chime in with specifics

 

[JD4440]

subscribing, Wasn't Henry running the 4094 and dual fuelers when his popped?

 

[TrentNell]

I am sure someone will slam me for this but , I think the duscusion on built motor failures is really the only ones that much can be gathered from . Too much unkown with quality control of OEM parts IMOP, i have sorted data a ton reading through old threads and there flat out is no ryme or reason to pistons failing . 2 points from my own opinion



1- poor tuning ( DIY or newb efi user) or plain just beating the snot out of a truck can kill a motor , I think more motors have been wadded up on the street than in a competition event whether it be sled pulling or drag racing .


2- the failures should be seperately dicussed between piston problem and rod failure because i dont think the same issue's cause both problems . And another problem is seperate between LB7,LLY / LBZ,LMM .


On rods i have proven for myself that it is very dificult to bend a rod on a single CP3 if not impossible ( unless long periods of use are discussed) as long as the tuning is straight . after a dual CP3 is added i have noticed a slightly rougher idle after running it at 800-850 hp, so ya a rod bent on my 11.06 run, ya not a ton but it is hurt from 1 WOT pass .

I have no experience on piston problems so i will pass on the subject and have made no sence of all the others i have heard of failing .

 

[McRat]

Here is my first failure:

...

How many miles at this level- see below

#1- Injectors- Stock LLY

#2- PW- 3400

#3- Timing- 36 max

#4- Fueling- 1 LLY pump + 1 LBZ pump

#5- Turbo- GT4202R, 59psig boost

#6- Motor built or not- Bone stock

#7- LIft Pumps- Edelbrock 1792, 12psi idle, 6 psi on launch

Dyno'd 754rwhp, 1480ftlb. Trap speeds over 120mph. All rods bent ~.060", zero piston erosion, zero headgasket issues. Everything but rods were reused. Earlier use of nitrous, several hundred 1/4mi passes, at least 200 dyno test runs, several different turbochargers, makes it hard to judge how many "miles" were on it.

Note: No melted pistons or cracked pistons. Pistons were reused and eventually melted in a built engine.

I fully expect this thread to turn into an infomercial, so post your prices, dyno sheets (photoshop works), testomonials, etc. Youtube videos with pretty girls in them along with 35mpg claims or 650HP "tune only" anedotes would help as well.

Mick posted a similiar thread, and few really said anything, so perhaps there hasn't been any Dmax failures except me and some LBZ/LMM's.

 

[McRat]

Snipped from another thread...
...
Me running 500hp on stock turbo stock sticks McRat tuning - pop.
...

Brayden: When did your engine blow running my tuning? That same tune has been on Blue for years with no problems, and was loaded on your truck Feb '06.

 

[juddski88]

the one thing i have seen consistently is failing stock pistons fed by a single charger, and when someone has gone into a build with the "more fuel is better" mentality, something breaks, whether its the tranny, the pistons, the rods, the crank, bearings...etc. i have noticed that the tuners that are very conservative with their fuel and liberal with their air (twins) have been better off built motor or not

Just my observations:hello:

 

[JoshH]

Brayden: When did your engine blow running my tuning? That same tune has been on Blue for years with no problems, and was loaded on your truck Feb '06.

He just copy and pasted. That was taken from here.

So lets talk about it then.... Im sure this will get split.

Me running 500hp on stock turbo stock sticks McRat tuning - pop.

Simons buddies LMM above similar story - pop.

Henrys was stock motor stock turbo I beleive - pop.

Chad Alligator was same story - pop.

Tommy had dual fuelers but pop.

WikdLMM stock stock pop.

Who else? Theres tons more. Several different tuners and styles of tuning.

 

[McRat]

He just copy and pasted. That was taken from here.

Perhaps he should have made it more clear. I tuned his truck for free at the Suncoast open-house, and he was very happy at the time. That post looks like I blew his truck up. In any case, he copied it into this thread for reason.

Yup, I figure about 2% of the trucks I've tuned have blown up. Best guess is that I've tuned 600 trucks (probably much more). My only guarantee is that anything I sell or give out for free will reduce the life of your engine, or your money-back.

If somebody tells you big injectors will stop your engine from blowing up, they are selling injectors, not truth. What worries me, is that if they have worked on lots of trucks as they claim, they do know the truth, they just omit it.

No diesel shop has any failures, but they do love to discuss other people's failures.

 

[Mike]

Brayden: When did your engine blow running my tuning? That same tune has been on Blue for years with no problems, and was loaded on your truck Feb '06.

I'm going off the rocker here but will re-rock.

We all know one tune in 500 trucks will most likely give 500 different times or at least same times with different weights and race combos. At one time, I wondered how the hell two different people got two different results racing the same tune. Duh..... lol

Anyway, I ran your tune(s) as well as countless variations of that tune for a year before I decided I had big enough balls to build one of my own. I also made sure I had good fuel, clean filters and fuel pressure and also didn't over/under estimate facts like egt's or whatever else should have been realized by me to confirm the tune would work. I'm still on the same old stocker, I'm sure the rods are off a few thousands or more but, I used my head and was able to squeeze those miles, maybe.

My point is, if I run a tune and my engine goes boom that tune was not right for my configuration and I'm at fault. Oh and really, which tune did the engine in?



Back on topic.

Stock engine
Stock injectors and bunch of different turbochargers as well.
Compound turbo's and compound supercharger/turbo.
Timing, one extreme to another tested with a pressure monitor.
Dual cp3's

Known issue, leaking head gasket. Seems to have one anyway. Not much coolant loss but can smell coolant on some start ups.

Will be gone soon, and will post more then.

I've been wanting to run a bore scope through it but, time.

 

[JoshH]

My personal opinion is too much credit or blame is given to tuning. I don't think it is as big of a factor in cracked/holed pistons as some like to claim. I also don't think EGTs play as big of a role as might be expected.

 

[TNRGreene]

I don't believe there is any ONE answer but maybe a combination of things works. I could never get dyno #'s out of blues tune yet had better 1/4 mile times then blue My motor is still alive also. Maybe Brayden found something...I have no clue. I'm willing to try to figure out what is causing this if possible.

 

[JoshH]

My money is still on piston cooling and oil temperature.

 

[TNRGreene]

I have run tunes:
Predator tunes
Hot +2
McRat
Craigs (DieselPilot)
Nick (DuramaxTuner)
Simon (SweetDiesel)
LJ (LarrryJewell)
Mine mixed with others

 

[sweetdiesel]

The LMM in question had less than 4000 miles on it 3150 PW and 30 timng at 3000 .....Stock everything besides dpf delete and exhaust

 

[sweetdiesel]

My friends LLY just let go last week after 360 000 miles and tuned from day 1
he has had 3 built trans in it and was running a 4094 for the last 80k ish

he has never ran less than a 3000 pw and timing is 32 at 3000 it let go after running on the highway at speeds up to 120mph

 

[MMLMM]

530-560rwhp, 12.7s, maybe 30-40 1/4 mile passes, a 144mph run, 1800° EGT buried many times for at least a few seconds...


4094, lift pump, stock sticks, 33° 3300us

no crack, melt, hole or a bent rod.

Just a spun main bearing.

 

[[email protected]]

I like threads like these.

Does anyone ever try to back down the fueling based on how much air your getting in? My peak pulsewidth (stock turbo, stock everything LLY) is around 3100 at around 2800-3000rpm, but as rpms go up to 3200-3400rpms pulse is already down to 2600us. It looks like the a/f ratio stays the same through the rpms.

When the pulsewidth is at 2600 you don't need the 30 degrees of timing anymore, its only around 22 degrees. The rpms probably make the problem worse.

This is proabably a very different situation with a better turbo that can work at higher rpms, but with the stock turbo its just not getting the airmass at high rpms.