I highly doubt gm removed material from the fire deck. The only place they look "thin" are around the intake ports, I don't see an issue.
L5P L5P Tuning
- Thread starter Hambone
- Start date
I thought I read where they increased the thickness of the fire deck to hold the additional pressure/power?
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Was this a hoax? I have friends who want to delete theirs. I don't feel like digging for them so I'll just ask here.
Hey y’all should not be running any bio mix fuel in these trucks or anything with a dpf
It’s a sure fire way to clog them up quick
We found out the hard way that one of our guys was filling up his welder with race trac fuel which here in FL they are bio blended and it munked it up
Been running bio diesel in my truck since it was new, no smoking (when not regening) and no clogged DPF. Biodiesel is a great fuel.
Was this a hoax? I have friends who want to delete theirs. I don't feel like digging for them so I'll just ask here.
A few people asked them on the facebook post about it and asked for some sort of proof, even just a picture of an L5P truck being flashed, and they got real nasty with him. Went straight to attacking him, so I don't know about these guys. They may have done it, but there business sense doesn't seem very sound to attack potential clients.
Potential clients? I believe the people who cracked it will sell to a large company, they don’t make tunes only crack the ecm.
I'll just consider it a hoax until a video of one gets posted up here...
It’ll be a while before tuning is available
Heard any interesting podcast with kory Willis discussing tuning for the l5p. Seems like it’s more of legal issue hurdle than the ecm being uncrackable.
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While I didn't hear that specific podcast, I get the same feeling from EFI Live. The mere mention of tuning one get's the thread shutdown over there.
My understanding is that the Patent specifies that GM has the specific rights to the software and its creation. Likely something the EPA brought upon the Auto industry to try and cut down on tampering with emissions equipment.
My impression on the EfiLive site regarding tuning the L5P and the "blocking" of threads or new discussions is more along the lines of it has already been discussed plenty and there is no need for a new thread to take up space. Not really that they don't what to do it or the legalities involved
As for the epa's involvement, I think it was them putting the pressure on the auto industry to come up with a way to stop the meddling. This is just GM's way of complying. It also gives GM additional bonus points for reduced warranty claims on tuned trucks. As far as what percentage, bewteen warranty and epa, persuaded them to go this route may never be known
GMC_2002_Dmax
The Still Master
The issue moving forward IMHO, is that the software and process is most likely patented and proprietary, meaning that the way in which the security is being implemented may be crackable, but the software and method may be protected by a patent.
My feeling was always that whomever offered the tuning for these L5P's first would be made an example of, as in hefty fines, jail time, and financially ruined as an example to the rest of the industry.
Others have already been targeted and nobody has enough $$$$ for a fight wth GM and its lawyers and the EPA and their lawyers.
So at some point there may be "tuning", but t this time the risk is not outweighing the $$$$$, nobody wants to be sued, and GM and the EPA would like nothing more to go after someone.
My feeling was always that whomever offered the tuning for these L5P's first would be made an example of, as in hefty fines, jail time, and financially ruined as an example to the rest of the industry.
Others have already been targeted and nobody has enough $$$$ for a fight wth GM and its lawyers and the EPA and their lawyers.
So at some point there may be "tuning", but t this time the risk is not outweighing the $$$$$, nobody wants to be sued, and GM and the EPA would like nothing more to go after someone.
The key is to replace the OEM software, not just tweek tables.
I've seen little effort, if any, to do that.
I've seen little effort, if any, to do that.
The issue moving forward IMHO, is that the software and process is most likely patented and proprietary, meaning that the way in which the security is being implemented may be crackable, but the software and method may be protected by a patent.
My feeling was always that whomever offered the tuning for these L5P's first would be made an example of, as in hefty fines, jail time, and financially ruined as an example to the rest of the industry.
Others have already been targeted and nobody has enough $$$$ for a fight wth GM and its lawyers and the EPA and their lawyers.
So at some point there may be "tuning", but t this time the risk is not outweighing the $$$$$, nobody wants to be sued, and GM and the EPA would like nothing more to go after someone.
Well Said! Thank you. :thumb:
Agree 100%. I actually have been talking to some German programing guru's with a background at big B, about doing exactly that.
Motec has a unit out now that can take place of stock 01-16 PCM. Couple stand alone builds testing it. And I'll bet we could make it communicate happily with other GM nodes. However present cost, with the required options, puts it in similar range as a MS unit. So I'm in no rush to try it.
As for the legality of cracking and hacking this GM ECU. You own it, it's yours to do with as you please. Actually it's likely good part of the reason behind all this GM encryption.
https://www.eff.org/press/releases/eff-wins-petition-inspect-and-modify-car-software
Tell Kory I'll volunteer my company to test the waters.. Literally, cause I gonna test it on the water. Removing that one gov entity from the equation. GM doesn't scare me. Always wanted my name on a law..
:roflmao:
I maybe wrong but wouldn’t this be the same thing for Haley patenting the sound of the Harley’s make. Then all a sudden you have thousands of different e exhaust being installed changing the patent?
Like any aftermarket tuner has the skill to tune from scratch... Lol...
They couldn't write a complete tune in a year, there are teams of people that build the tuning software for these trucks not to mention the integration into all the systems (abs, stabilitrack, bcm, etc...) which would also need to be rewritten. I think that route is probably impossible...
There are tons of aftermarket ECUs for gas motors that were done from scratch. Look up the history of the MegaSquirt. A college kid thought to himself "I bet I could make an ECU", then did. Sure, it isn't as good as what GM was running at the time, but one person could run a modern diesel in a basic capacity with the right background. The key is the time investment required. Basically anyone with the hardware and software development background required earns too much working for other companies to spend the months of full time work to create the software to run on the GM ECU.
Plus there are already complete aftermarket standalone ECUs for diesels. Banks uses the Bosch Motorsports ECU for their L5P testing. There are other options, but all are expensive. We just need a cheaper one.
Getting the aftermarket ECU to talk to the ABS, stability, etc. will be difficult for the same legal reasons as modifying the existing ECU. It might happen, but I am not going to hold my breath. That kind of integration happened more in the past because the protocols were simpler to reverse engineer, so individual actors could figure it out without a massive investment. Now, the investment is high enough that anyone who figures it out will want a ROI, but selling it now has legal questions, making it a poor business decision. Kidturbo gets around this because his market is the marine sector, which is exempted from most of the laws protecting the vehicle OEMs. From what little I've worked with him, I can only imagine the hours he has into data bus work. And there is no reason he would give that knowledge out for free or risk the lawsuits selling in the automotive sector.
Until there is a possibility of a legal ROI, I don't see a lot of time/effort going into this. With the EPA crackdowns on tuners, people are understandably uneasy. So while you are right that this probably isn't going anywhere, it isn't because of a lack of skill. It is the desire to turn that skill into money, and that is best served in other jobs right now for the people with the requisite skills.