Info: How to Build a 10 Second Dmax:

[MadMaxRacing]

It's always good to get different opinions.

As to how the latest TTS tune fares against the latest crop of EFILive based LB7 tunes, that will always be up for conjecture. I know the "old" one is no longer competitive. I had a trade-in ECM last year that was a TTS-locked Extreme, which is useless to me since I can't reflash it. So I sent it to an LB7 guy back east to compare it to various tunes on the dyno. It came in 3rd or 4th? Both the PPE Hot +2 and EFILive tunes had more HP, but the biggest difference was area-under-the-curve, or average HP.

Thats a different ballgame(dyno and the track).I have also seen other tunes that have made more hp on the dyno,but on the track its been a different outcome...

 

[McRat]

Thats a different ballgame(dyno and the track).I have also seen other tunes that have made more hp on the dyno,but on the track its been a different outcome...

Yes, there have been several folk who have run faster after switching. However, I do not normally discuss other folk's ET. Since I do not have an LB7, I have no first hand.

 

[SteveFord]

You know what they say....one mans poop is another mans soup J/K

 

[MadMaxRacing]

Good enough,I wont ans anymore...

 

[MadMaxRacing]

ask,sorry

 

[Samdweezel05]

I am the new guy here and I have no experiance with anything but I can't understand how a preprogrammed ECM or "canned tune" can ever keep up with a custom tune built for a custom truck. Even two trucks with the same mods won't require the same tune. If you think that HP on the dyno doesn't relate to speed on the track, your crazy. I think I'll stick with EFI for now untill I put my stock charger back on and go back into the 14's.

Phil

 

[TheBac]

I respect Buck and Jess just like I do everyone else who has pushed the Dmax world to the level it is now.

I really didnt want to start up the old "TTS vs the world" argument again. Sorry everyone.

I'll leave the "canned tune vs custom tune" argument with this: With PPEHot+2, I ran a 12.63 best, DA corrected to 12.55. With Nick's tuning, I ran 12.40, DA corrected to 12.41. I changed nothing else on the truck between the two weeks. Temperatures were within 5* both days. Different trucks run canned tunes differently. Its all in how your truck's mods interact and work together.


I love threads like these. Real info, real discussion.

 

[bighawg]

I love threads like these. Real info, real discussion.

:yup:

I'm pretty new to the whole duramax hotrod scene but I feel like I've learned so much from threads like this. Years worth of experimentation and trail and error condensed into a three page thread. Man it's great. Thanks for sharing your experience's guys, it will make it so much easier to make my project preform like I want. :beer

 

[MadMaxRacing]

I respect Buck and Jess just like I do everyone else who has pushed the Dmax world to the level it is now.

I really didnt want to start up the old "TTS vs the world" argument again. Sorry everyone.

I'll leave the "canned tune vs custom tune" argument with this: With PPEHot+2, I ran a 12.63 best, DA corrected to 12.55. With Nick's tuning, I ran 12.40, DA corrected to 12.41. I changed nothing else on the truck between the two weeks. Temperatures were within 5* both days. Different trucks run canned tunes differently. Its all in how your truck's mods interact and work together.


I love threads like these. Real info, real discussion.

you are correct,every truck is different.My truck with the ppe hot plus 2 being the only change has always been 2-4 tenths slower then TTS,I have done this numerous times on many different tracks with the same outcome...just my 2cents!!!

 

[McRat]

What it boils down to, is that if you are starting out with the goal of building a 10 second Duramax, which model you start with is not important. You will need X amount of power to get it done. How you get it is not as important as getting it.

Only recently have 750+ HP Dmaxes become readily available. About 2 years. There are many different ways to get it. Because of that, custom tuning is the most reliable answer, and the system that is currently the best on our trucks is EFILive. But, that is no more the "only" answer anymore than a particular turbo design or nitrous jet would be. But it's what I would use if I were starting out again.

 

[J Spruill]

... also one more question why do you you mention the 120 mph in the 1/4 what is the problem with that? Pat have you tried to see if the single big cp3 pump will support a 10 sec truck.

 

[McRat]

Currently, dual CP3's aren't significantly more expensive than a full-tilt mod'd CP3, and are alot simpler to install. If anyone is going over 750hp with a single CP3 on fuel, they are hiding it well. Several trucks are over that with duals.

There are several problems with going over 4000rpm, and one of them is the CP3. It's performance declines as RPM goes up, and we have less time to inject the fuel. And the EGT's climb wildly as you go higher and higher due to the restriction in the exhaust. The duration you need works against you.

Casper routinely shifts at 4500rpm, even when it had stock injectors. Very recently (Sept?) I put 10% over injectors in it. Currently it runs to 4800rpm without problem. But if you can, you want to keep the RPM to 4000 or less for drag racing IMO, if you want the engine to live.

 

[Subman]

My 02 cents, The TTS Extreme was about the best there was in most anyone's opinon in 05 and 06 if you owned an LB7. Mine ran 12.09, tried my damnest to get into the 11's but the motor started to go so retired it. Things have changed so fast and EFI Live has really changed the Dmax world. Tuning three years ago was like comparing an old 80/86 IBM computer to what is available today. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next two or three years. I really enjoy watching and participating in the growth and performance of the Duramax and diesels in general. I have great feeling about the coming year and feel the bar will be set much higher in all facets of the sport be it dyno, drag racing, pulling or land speed records. I would hope we all have success and everyone is safe, lets have a great 09. :thumb:

 

[J Spruill]

i agree with what you guys are saying about modded trucks needed tweaks.how easy is it for a person with efi live to modify a race program from Pat or Tony or one of the other successful tuners or does the tuner have to be with the truck to get results.i have seen a few efi race tunes bought from various places and they were nice setups but in my opinion no better than other options available.i do want to add these guys didnt have the efi live program themselves to make changes if that is even an option.i enjoy reading on this site and it lets me know were the current train of thought is in dmax performance.i do know some about dmaxes but am by no means an expert.if some one needs help or advice i am more than willing to help.differing opinions is racing.i dont wont to hijack a thread so this will be my last post in this one.canned tuned to canned tune tts to efi i would prefer tts and custom tuned efi to custom tuned tts i prefer tts.different strokes right.carry on good thread if i can help anyone let me know.there are more problems to be found as hp levels increase above 1000 hp applied.lots more to come i am sure...

 

[sweetdiesel]

i agree with what you guys are saying about modded trucks needed tweaks.how easy is it for a person with efi live to modify a race program from Pat or Tony or one of the other successful tuners or does the tuner have to be with the truck to get results.i have seen a few efi race tunes bought from various places and they were nice setups but in my opinion no better than other options available.i do want to add these guys didnt have the efi live program themselves to make changes if that is even an option.i enjoy reading on this site and it lets me know were the current train of thought is in dmax performance.i do know some about dmaxes but am by no means an expert.if some one needs help or advice i am more than willing to help.differing opinions is racing.i dont wont to hijack a thread so this will be my last post in this one.canned tuned to canned tune tts to efi i would prefer tts and custom tuned efi to custom tuned tts i prefer tts.different strokes right.carry on good thread if i can help anyone let me know.there are more problems to be found as hp levels increase above 1000 hp applied.lots more to come i am sure...

what would your opinion be if the thread title was changed to "How to build a 10 second LLY/LBZ and lb7"?


As far as how easy is it for a person to make changes or modify to a race program? Well hard to say some people are better than others as far as what to change and some people work in groups that help each other out, So more people learn = more different set ups JMHO

 

[McRat]

i agree with what you guys are saying about modded trucks needed tweaks.how easy is it for a person with efi live to modify a race program from Pat or Tony or one of the other successful tuners or does the tuner have to be with the truck to get results.i have seen a few efi race tunes bought from various places and they were nice setups but in my opinion no better than other options available.i do want to add these guys didnt have the efi live program themselves to make changes if that is even an option.i enjoy reading on this site and it lets me know were the current train of thought is in dmax performance.i do know some about dmaxes but am by no means an expert.if some one needs help or advice i am more than willing to help.differing opinions is racing.i dont wont to hijack a thread so this will be my last post in this one.canned tuned to canned tune tts to efi i would prefer tts and custom tuned efi to custom tuned tts i prefer tts.different strokes right.carry on good thread if i can help anyone let me know.there are more problems to be found as hp levels increase above 1000 hp applied.lots more to come i am sure...

I have dyno tuned a truck 2500mi away while it was on the dyno by emailing files while they faxed me dyno sheets and log info after each pull.

There are over 100 folk on this board (400?) who customize their tunes to dial in their trucks. After the initial learning curve, it's not hard to edit your tune's fuel and timing at specific RPM ranges.

Of course you know that there are more LLY/LBZ's/LMM's now than LB7's, and TTS isn't even an option for those folk.

 

[1badmax]

Some folk feel a need to spank anything with a license plate attached with their Dmaxes. A 10.999 will pretty much do just that 99% of of the time. So here's some thoughts on how to do just that.

First let's talk about the engine:

You will need a power to weight ratio of about 8.5lb/rwhp or better.
That is:

Weight	RWHP
7000	824
6750	794
6500	765
6250	735
6000	706
5750	676
5500	647
5250	618
5000	588
4750	559
4500	529
4250	500
4000	471

So how much motor you need is dictated by your weight. At about 650rwhp+ you will probably bend the rods, so if your raceweight is over 5500lb, it means you will need a race motor. I'm going to assume a raceweight of over 6000lb for the rest of this thread.

The minimum requirement I'd suggest is Crower rods and "delipped" pistons. While you are there, you need to key the cam and crankshaft. Adding headstuds, coated pistons, high speed valvetrain, ported heads, stroker kit, etc, can all add lifespan to the engine and help you go to the next step, but is not absolutely necessary based on experience.

To extract the HP, you will need to up both the air and the fuel. A single GT4202R or other 3.0 inducer charger would be the minimum to do it without drugs, or with the right amount of nitrous, you could do it on the stock charger, although it won't survive long. For "fuel only", the minimum fuel adder would be dual CP3's. Pretty much twin-compounded chargers would be a shoe-in. Lift pump manditory no matter what. You will get fuel starvation from the g-force.

EFILive would be the #1 choice for tuning a 10 second or faster truck, as you can change the tuning to suit track conditions and part changes, and get data from your runs.

Next you will need a transmission. Best solution is still the Allison, and when built right, can survive quite awhile in the 10's. Running a Dodge trans has not proven necessary in the 10 second range, nor is the Dodge trans without problems. Your converter will be determined by how you get your power. But a looser converter tends to be easier to work with. Mike L has tested about 8 different converters on our trucks, he would be the best source for converter selection. You should not need a CoPilot for most trucks, depending on the tuning, but it can give you more options. The trans build itself? You will need to spend your money. Do not skimp. Do not fall for "guaranteed to 1000HP" sales campaigns. Go with the best, which in my experience is Mike L. Use a transfer case brace if 4x4.

Gearing. You can't get any decent race tires bigger than 30", and most are 28". This will cause MPH limit problems as you go faster than 120. A 10 will take about 124mph or faster. I'd suggest 3.42's from Yukon. We are not sure yet whether a 6-sp Allison could be used, so far the testing has been negative.

Tires. The 28" dia M&H 275/60-16's on PYO's are my favorite. They are light, affordable, and can cut 1.5's on a moderately prepped track. 30PSI should be the right balance between traction and rolling resistance.

Front axle for 4x4's. You will need a Super Diesel (or copy) straight centerlink and sleeves. Period. Cognitos ain't going to hang nor will the factory centerlink. Drop your Tbars down to the lowest level.

Rear suspension. Soften it up, and increase the shock dampening. Traction bars should be used. Wheelhop will break your truck, and you can't run the number with a busted-ass truck. I pulled all but the long leaf and overload leaf, then added CalTracs and stiffer shocks.

Safety equipment. You will need a SNELL Helmet, SFI Firejacket, 5-pt SFI harness, and a rollbar to 10.00. The rollbar specs are in the $10 NHRA rulebook. Go with the ChromeMoly (4130) version to save weight.

I'll add stuff as I remember.

I like your post pat..
There is also alot of headaches and stomach aches...

 

[1badmax]

hp

What about MPH? at 824 hp to run a 10.99 what ball park will the mph be at?
The higher the mph the more power.

 

[McRat]

The minimum MPH will have to be about 124. The heavier the truck, the higher it will probably MPH for the same ET. And I've seen tracks up to about 2mph difference on how they measure traps.

 

[McRat]

Here's the exact build for Casper when it first broke into the 10's:

Mike L Allison with 1057 converter and CoPilot
Fully built SoCalDiesel LLY/LBZ engine, ported heads, cam, HS springs, studs, cut and coated pistons.
A/C delete, 1 battery removed, PCV catch can.
Stock injectors, PPE Dual Fuelers with one LLY and one LBZ OEM pump.
PPE GT4202R turbo kit
4" open exhaust, no headers, side exit.
5" custom intake made by PPE.
Front suspension, SD centerlink/sleeves, stock shocks.
Rear suspension, long leaf + overload, stock shocks, Caltracs.
Rollbar, race seat, 5-pt harness.
Rollpan, no rear bumper.
EFILive tuning written by myself for both engine and transmission, with tech support by Guy Tripp.

I think that's it?