Crower Billet Crankshaft?
- Thread starter SIKDMAX
- Start date
Don't feel bad Matt. This still has the potential for good technical debate. If it hadn't been for a few to settle agendas, we might have learned something by now.
Before anyone continues with the crusade to crucify Guy, remember, our vendors are in business first to make money. Period. Nearly all of them offer the best product they can offer, at a price most or many can afford, and still try to make a buck to pay the light bill. No one is doing this for love of humanity or Duramax's. Hell, I've seen broken forged Scats.
Guy brought up an interesting point with the billet crank statement vs. twist forged. I hope he can share some insight. Is billet stronger? Probably per dollar invested. I imagine the die for a straight forged piece is a bitch! Crazy expensive to build and maintain. Plus, need lots o' cranks sold to recapture just the cost of the die, much less the other costs of production.
By the way, anyone seen a big forging press? Massive.
Before anyone continues with the crusade to crucify Guy, remember, our vendors are in business first to make money. Period. Nearly all of them offer the best product they can offer, at a price most or many can afford, and still try to make a buck to pay the light bill. No one is doing this for love of humanity or Duramax's. Hell, I've seen broken forged Scats.
Guy brought up an interesting point with the billet crank statement vs. twist forged. I hope he can share some insight. Is billet stronger? Probably per dollar invested. I imagine the die for a straight forged piece is a bitch! Crazy expensive to build and maintain. Plus, need lots o' cranks sold to recapture just the cost of the die, much less the other costs of production.
By the way, anyone seen a big forging press? Massive.
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I do get a kick when the secret squirrel patrol gets their panties in a wad when folk act just like they themselves do.:joker:
Every mod and failure on all three of our trucks for the past 5 years have been documented on the internet, even the tuning has been sent out unlocked. Many others do as well, and I don't see them in threads like this one demanding anything.
Basically, if you want more info on the internet, then you must lead by example instead of criticizing others.
Wade simply wants to take the information Guy spent 20 hours providing him, and start selling competing products. First step is to try and create the idea that a "better solution" is needed, then just make the same stuff and claim it's better. Lordy that is getting so old. But it really sucks that's he's going to use the information both ways, to copy what Guy is offering, and at the same time saying it's junk. The Dodge world is famous for that, so you seldom hear anything that is true about either builds or failures.
Will Dodge Shop Business Theory work here? That's up to you folk to decide.
Every mod and failure on all three of our trucks for the past 5 years have been documented on the internet, even the tuning has been sent out unlocked. Many others do as well, and I don't see them in threads like this one demanding anything.
Basically, if you want more info on the internet, then you must lead by example instead of criticizing others.
Wade simply wants to take the information Guy spent 20 hours providing him, and start selling competing products. First step is to try and create the idea that a "better solution" is needed, then just make the same stuff and claim it's better. Lordy that is getting so old. But it really sucks that's he's going to use the information both ways, to copy what Guy is offering, and at the same time saying it's junk. The Dodge world is famous for that, so you seldom hear anything that is true about either builds or failures.
Will Dodge Shop Business Theory work here? That's up to you folk to decide.
steve cole just found his way in here with wade and dmaxlover. Take this for what it's worth.
wade screws people with his angines with missing parts and dmaxlover blasts any product on here.
Plus we have a couple of little bitches here that like to stoke the fire.
Moss
you are known to be tts friendly and have no interest in a stroker but yet you brought your ass in here. My point exactly.
wade screws people with his angines with missing parts and dmaxlover blasts any product on here.
Plus we have a couple of little bitches here that like to stoke the fire.
Moss
you are known to be tts friendly and have no interest in a stroker but yet you brought your ass in here. My point exactly.
dont know about shop and making engine parts/kits....
seams like wade is looking at making a dmax to go in his pro street truck.. and went to guy for help be it parts, assemble, heads etc....
and feel that guy told him that a stroker crank had broken... which guy hasnt directly answered yeah or neh... honestly it would not suprise me if there was one... that is growing pains with a new product..
both agree that non -twisted cranks are stronger then twisted cranks
of course if guy says yes alot of people are going to aske for pictures, detials details.. then harass whom ever about it... and put their .02 in. deffenatly dont thing guy would release a crank to the masses wiht out testing.
i dont think wade is another TTS... a crank is a crank end the end result the difference is how it got from round stock to the finish product.
a ~500hp tune is generally the same on everything... the difference is between 10-80% throttle
i agree with Adam, i am most appalled though at how quickly everyone got so defensive and forgot that this started as a tech thread and not a bashing thread
No, Wade is a diesel shop. He's here to make a buck. He currently doesn't sell cranks, run a stroker, or built one, or tuned one.
This is something I don't understand. We try to keep "vendors" from fighting and even have a mediating area for it to resolve them.
But what about "silent vendors" who try to attack other shops? Must they play by the same rules that others must adhere to?
But back on topic, I have no idea if the SoCal stroker is stronger than other solutions. If I break one, it won't be a private matter. Pretty much the only thing I haven't busted is a crankshaft so far. Guy is sticking his neck out pretty far to build us a stroker engine, because I'm the Angel of Death for Dmax parts, and when I bust stuff, it's there in technicolor.
And I'm no dummy. I made calls and got behind-the-scene info before we decided on the 7.1. I believe it's an acceptable risk, just like everything else I dink with. If it fails, it's more than just $20k in engine parts, I lose all the time and money it takes to show up to Bonneville and throw it on the line. In some cases, it's a personal injury risk when an engine fails and Bonneville is one of those.
My real concern is pistons, and I think that is my greatest gamble. That's what busted last time. The crank? Minor risk.
I wasn't looking at saving face or trying to warm up to anyone, I felt it was better to protect the site from specualtion that the site owner slams anyone who rebutals a respected vendor. As well as trying to gain as much info without personal attacks.....you know , like the rod thread that seems to be worthless anymore.
SOME OF YOUR PROBLEMS HAVE BEEN SELF INFLICTED, despite what you want to believe.
Nothing personal at all, I still have repect for what you have/have to offer, I just don't agree with everything you say.[/QUOTE]
SOME OF YOUR PROBLEMS HAVE BEEN SELF INFLICTED, despite what you want to believe.
Nothing personal at all, I still have repect for what you have/have to offer, I just don't agree with everything you say.[/QUOTE]
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Of course he can Josh, that's why we're here...Do you have anything to add to this discussion?...I do
Pat you know what happenes when you assume????
Yes right now your looking more like an ass, guessing at my next move in the diesel world.......
I have no intrest at making a freakin stroker kit, nore have i ever. Personally i feel you dont need to add cubic inches to make power.
Pat if you dont know for sure what my plans are dont assume what they are please.
Im just trying to build a Drag truck OK........
Yes right now your looking more like an ass, guessing at my next move in the diesel world.......
I have no intrest at making a freakin stroker kit, nore have i ever. Personally i feel you dont need to add cubic inches to make power.
Pat if you dont know for sure what my plans are dont assume what they are please.
Im just trying to build a Drag truck OK........
Blah blah blah! Someone asked if a stroker crank broke, Guy replied with no, and I told it the way it is. If you don't like it....Tough!
If I had $11k laying around I would take one of Guy's kits in a second, but I don't. A couple of broke cranks isn't going to scare me away. Hell, there has been more than a few stockers break, but guess what? I still run one.
The TTS argument always comes up with you, if you have such a problem with him, do something about it instead of constantly pulling other people into the middle of your fight. I've only purchased two items from TTS ever! 1. A tech IV programmer that actually I bought from PPE, and was later upgraded to the xtreme by TTS, and now sold. 2. A set of R&R rods, because they were the only ones available at the time (everything else was sold out), and a local vendor was selling them.
If I'm such a TTS poster child, why do I run parts from you, Guy, Pat, ATS, Suncoast, Merchant, Kennedy, etc. As Pat has once said, I run parts not brand names. I use what works!
Sorry for the off topic post, but just wanted to reply to Mike's BS.
So you haven't even built the motor yet and you think that gives you the right to look down on my truck.
http://www.duramaxdiesels.com/forum/showpost.php?p=150995&postcount=3
Best of luck on your build. Hope no one else gets fired when something doesn't work out the way you want it to on the first try.
What I do know is you are developing penchant for harrassing folk here.
I do know you've posted here that you're working on "solutions" for Dmaxes.
I do know I had to manually delete your sales pitch out of your signature after you refused a polite request.
I do know you post private conversations you have with others onto the internet.
That's just what your behavior has been since you joined here. We aren't looking for Vendor Wars here. Take to another board. I'll tell you this, if you start posting PM's, that will get turned off for offenders just like anyone who does it. We keep them private on this board.
That's not how I've read the thread. I do not believe he either denied it, or acknowledged it. I do know there has been public mention of it, not only here in this thread, but on another board as well, but I haven't seen any public comment by the parties involved.
What the particulars of the matter are, I don't really know.
I'm not going to lock this thread like is common on other boards. From this post forward, let's discuss Duramax crankshafts.
Yes, I know I'm a prime offender in that regard, and get my neck hairs up when folk post up private conversations. I apologize for going off topic, I screw up now and then.
ok so back to it then: if billet non-forged cranks are "better because their grains are "uninterrupted" and Forged cranks (non-twist) are superior because the grains intertwine, then which is metallurgically correct?
Seems to me the argument is that billet is better than twist forged, but straight forged is better than billet.
From the Popular Hotrodding article that DieselPower posted:
He's saying if the process is controlled right, they are equal.
Well then we are REALLY screwed, since the factory crankshaft have been known to break at even stock power levels. Rare but it happens. And certainly a small number of 500HP club members have broken one.
But wait. There is something hotrodders have known for a long time: Not all "identical" parts are equal, especially when talking cast or forged cranks. Sometimes the process is NOT correct. And it's why going to the aftermarket professional crankshaft builders has been common. They control the processes better than the factory does, and inspect the parts more closely (in general).
Right now, you have two choices for a stroker engine. Billet crank from a professional crankshaft mfr, or OEM twisted-forged, and journal reduced by .250 DIA. So you have the whole "process control" thing combined with structurally weakening the crank by large amounts of metal removed in a highly stressed area.
Lunati spokesman
He's saying if the process is controlled right, they are equal.
Well then we are REALLY screwed, since the factory crankshaft have been known to break at even stock power levels. Rare but it happens. And certainly a small number of 500HP club members have broken one.
But wait. There is something hotrodders have known for a long time: Not all "identical" parts are equal, especially when talking cast or forged cranks. Sometimes the process is NOT correct. And it's why going to the aftermarket professional crankshaft builders has been common. They control the processes better than the factory does, and inspect the parts more closely (in general).
Right now, you have two choices for a stroker engine. Billet crank from a professional crankshaft mfr, or OEM twisted-forged, and journal reduced by .250 DIA. So you have the whole "process control" thing combined with structurally weakening the crank by large amounts of metal removed in a highly stressed area.