Crower Billet Crankshaft?

malibu795

misspeelleerr
Apr 28, 2007
8,248
550
113
42
in the buckeye state
That's how they fixed problems when I worked in aerospace.

"Seems you didn't not make the delivery deadline. What is your CAR (corrective action)?"

"We fixed that by firing people."

:D

not meeting a reasnonable agreed dead line for no good reason... gets my goat...


navy does that as well... not actually fireing... but you aint doing that job any more :rofl:
 

Trippin

SoCal Diesel
Aug 10, 2006
663
2
0
Wow, I had no idea this thread had turned into such a pissing match. I guess my Email notifications aren't working properly.

You're right Wade I do owe you an apology. I double typed the zeros in my previous post. I have spent over 20 hours on the phone with you, not 200. 200 hours on the phone is a ridiculous number. :eek:

I'm usually pretty good at re-reading my posts for spelling/typos, but every once in a while one slips through.

Everybody has a budget they need their build to fit into. That is a fact that I deal with every day. I will never fault anyone for having champagne tastes on a beer budget, that certainly was not the intent of my post.

The fact that you started as an unlimited engine build and have now had to scale back your operation is a problem I'm sure many are facing in today's economic times.

Your bad engine deals along with this type of scale back do tend to raise a few red flags. Hopefully it is all a coincidence/misunderstanding.

Crossing over the line is when you start to post rumors about failures you have no direct experience with, these I regard as attacks on my company and rest assured, I will respond in kind.

In this case you have combined our conversations with regard to Fluidamper crank snout failures, internal vs external balancing, mismatched injectors, crank failures behind the first rod throw and second main bearing journal and stroker cranks all into one and come to the conclusion you posted previously.

And the apology goes to................:confused:
 

ChevyDieselLLY

Whats A Budget???
Apr 1, 2008
2,684
1
0
38
MI, NC, now Hawaii
Guy was upset cause he wanted to build my engine, and now that im building it myself(to save money) he is being a bit negitive about it. But Why? Thats how it goes sometimes Guy!


i just found this funny. you make it sound like it was the most important thing in the world for Guy to build a motor for you. Like im sure he was up all night because you said he couldnt.

Guy its ok you can call me if you need to talk about it im sure you are let down that you cant do it, i know you really had your hopes up


i try not to say anything whe it comes to threads like these. i just know Mike L. Guy and McRat have done more for Dmaxs then i will ever do and i dont care if they set my truck on fire one day. im sure it would be for the good of all dmaxs anyways :hug:
 

dmaxlover

New member
Mar 17, 2007
453
0
0
WI
i dont understand where the notion that everyone will disrespect Guy's parts and business if there in fact were other failures....shit happens

Exactly, Shit happens, then why lie about it.

The 7.1 cranks aren't any better than a stocker (except for the fact it has more stroke), and the people that are running them are maybe pushing 25% more power than most people with a stock crank..... Of coarse there's going to be failures, you'd have to be crazy to thing these stroker cranks are bomb proof.
 

dmaxlover

New member
Mar 17, 2007
453
0
0
WI
I'll try to make this a little more clear...If I was going to make a post regarding a MAJOR engine component failure (broken crank, rod, piston, cam), I would be 100% sure who's vehicle it was, how/when/why it happen, how I heard about it and get permission from them to talk about it...

But that's just me...

I agree! This is why I will not disclose a name.

I like how Pat can post the mormon missile blew up the engine without posting any proof, but when "others" post about stroker crank failures, shit hits the fan.
 

Trippin

SoCal Diesel
Aug 10, 2006
663
2
0
Exactly, Shit happens, then why lie about it.

The 7.1 cranks aren't any better than a stocker (except for the fact it has more stroke), and the people that are running them are maybe pushing 25% more power than most people with a stock crank..... Of coarse there's going to be failures, you'd have to be crazy to thing these stroker cranks are bomb proof.

No dis-respect intended here, I just want to elaborate on the red highlight above.

The stock crank is what is called a twisted forging. Meaning it is forged flat where all the rod throws are 180 degrees apart from one and other, while still hot it is then twisted into it's rough final shape where each rod throw is 90 degrees apart. You can probably visualize what happens to the grain structure as the unit is basically distorted into shape.

Billet cranks are machined from one big round hunk of material.

Taking into account the differences in metallurgy between the two, as well as the manufacturing process, billet cranks are definitely stronger. Dosen't matter if it is a SBC, BBC or a Duramax.

Indestructable? No. But definitely stronger than a twisted forging.
 

McRat

Diesel Hotrodder
Aug 2, 2006
11,249
26
38
64
Norco CA
www.mcratracing.com
I agree! This is why I will not disclose a name.

I like how Pat can post the mormon missile blew up the engine without posting any proof, but when "others" post about stroker crank failures, shit hits the fan.

Lynn Goodfellow was seriously injured in the fire in the Mormon Missile which now holds the world's record. It changed the safety rules for all racers, and was discussed publically among the racers.

He is recovering well last I heard and is in good spirits. He's a great guy and I wish him all the best.

I do not know exactly what let loose or why, but someone had posted about it. The cause of the injuries and fire was a brand of coolant that becomes flammable under the right conditions, which is now outlawed. Not knowing about what internally failed or why could possibly cause me injury or worse this year when I go to Bonneville, but that's racing.

Yes, I perhaps might have discussed a few engine failures where I was privy to the first hand autopsy or involved with the racing effort, but I can't remember when. But only after it was made public by the parties involved.
 

duratothemax

<--- slippery roads
Aug 28, 2006
7,139
10
0
Wyoming
The stock crank is what is called a twisted forging. Meaning it is forged flat where all the rod throws are 180 degrees apart from one and other, while still hot it is then twisted into it's rough final shape where each rod throw is 90 degrees apart..

cool! Thats interesting Guy..didnt know that. :cool:
 

McRat

Diesel Hotrodder
Aug 2, 2006
11,249
26
38
64
Norco CA
www.mcratracing.com
not meeting a reasnonable agreed dead line for no good reason... gets my goat...


navy does that as well... not actually fireing... but you aint doing that job any more :rofl:

off-topic...


What Corrective Action is, is a plan to stop future occurances of a documented failure in the manufacturing system.

Firing people is not corrective action, since how can you tell if the new people won't make the same mistake?

It was supposed be a joke. I call it humor-lite, all the buildup with 1/3rd less punchline.
 

Redbone

but this one goes to 11
May 1, 2008
261
0
0
Indy, IN
The stock crank is what is called a twisted forging. Meaning it is forged flat where all the rod throws are 180 degrees apart from one and other, while still hot it is then twisted into it's rough final shape where each rod throw is 90 degrees apart. You can probably visualize what happens to the grain structure as the unit is basically distorted into shape.

Billet cranks are machined from one big round hunk of material.

Taking into account the differences in metallurgy between the two, as well as the manufacturing process, billet cranks are definitely stronger. Dosen't matter if it is a SBC, BBC or a Duramax.

Guy, without getting into the austenite, martensite, Samsonite kind of discussion, and for fear of actually getting this thread back on topic, how does the above differ from conventional wisdom (depending which side of the argument you're on:)) regarding rods? The continuous grain structure in forged rods has generally been accepted as superior to billet pieces................................at least in my neighborhood.
 

Diesel power

New member
Jun 2, 2008
855
0
0
maryland
IMO billit steel by it self is OK but a "forged billit" is much stronger because the grain struture freely flows where the metal goes, similar to a twisted forging.

only difference is that a twisted forging is moved by "twisting the grains" into place and while hot it's OK cause it's very mallable and will conform quite well. it is a slightly cheaper way to get a Forged billit strength with out the cost......

a Billit has grain stuture following in ONE direction and is great for rods cause they only have a major stress point of up and down motion, while a crank has several......

IMO the forged billit is a stronger crank than standard billet
 

McRat

Diesel Hotrodder
Aug 2, 2006
11,249
26
38
64
Norco CA
www.mcratracing.com

Diesel power

New member
Jun 2, 2008
855
0
0
maryland
Seems I said "I think it blew up". Probably because it was pouring out white smoke when it started the backup run, and violently pressurized the coolant tank, and from info that the safety guys told us.

What broke if anything? Who knows? Nobody will say anything. Guess it's time to send Wade over there to get story.

You could at least put a smilie on there to get the point across better......
 

Diesel power

New member
Jun 2, 2008
855
0
0
maryland
Wow, I had no idea this thread had turned into such a pissing match. I guess my Email notifications aren't working properly.

You're right Wade I do owe you an apology. I double typed the zeros in my previous post. I have spent over 20 hours on the phone with you, not 200. 200 hours on the phone is a ridiculous number. :eek:

I'm usually pretty good at re-reading my posts for spelling/typos, but every once in a while one slips through.

Everybody has a budget they need their build to fit into. That is a fact that I deal with every day. I will never fault anyone for having champagne tastes on a beer budget, that certainly was not the intent of my post.

The fact that you started as an unlimited engine build and have now had to scale back your operation is a problem I'm sure many are facing in today's economic times.

Your bad engine deals along with this type of scale back do tend to raise a few red flags. Hopefully it is all a coincidence/misunderstanding.

Crossing over the line is when you start to post rumors about failures you have no direct experience with, these I regard as attacks on my company and rest assured, I will respond in kind.

In this case you have combined our conversations with regard to Fluidamper crank snout failures, internal vs external balancing, mismatched injectors, crank failures behind the first rod throw and second main bearing journal and stroker cranks all into one and come to the conclusion you posted previously.

And the apology goes to................:confused:


After you answer the question( Have any of your cranks failed?) we will see Where this goes.....

Of our conversations i remember quite clearly Exactly what was said about each and every failure we spoke about.

This is not an attempt to make your company look bad, but it is an attempt to get the "Truth, in the open"

"Right is Right".........Right?
 

WolfLMM

Making Chips
Nov 21, 2006
4,005
26
48
38
AL
It is easier to make one off custom cranks from billet! That is why it is done.

Forgings are stronger doesnt matter if it is twist or non twist. Forging creates a interwoven grain structure. The molecules are compressed and start to "hold hands".

Billet and Forge start out the same, both as round stock (in this case).

Not to piss on anyone, but this is an arguement that has been around for a long time. It all comes down to how the forging are made and the quality control, cause if all is right forgings are stronger.