Cracked Exhaust Ports

Utahski

New member
Oct 20, 2008
546
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Northern Utah
Randy is meticulous. When stuff comes from him it's exact and everything is done right. Those heads weren't right and one of them was screwed up to begin with. Randy doesn't do things that way......I'd be real surprised if they were from him. I think they were probably takeoffs that were laying around and came from some other scource, maybe even something they'd done themselves. The piston sounds like handling carelessness at II.

Talked with friend who builds a lot of heads. What I said about where those heads came from isn't necessarily right and I want to correct it. Heads can have casting flaws that become a factor when ported and material is removed. You can't tell by looking, it'll pass pressure testing but fail in use. It happens, and can happen to anyone who does this kind of work.
 

Bryce418

Still slow
Oct 5, 2009
611
0
0
Talked with friend who builds a lot of heads. What I said about where those heads came from isn't necessarily right and I want to correct it. Heads can have casting flaws that become a factor when ported and material is removed. You can't tell by looking, it'll pass pressure testing but fail in use. It happens, and can happen to anyone who does this kind of work.

No argument there. It's a reality that it can happen and is even more likely the bigger you go. I'm unimpressed with the stories of "this is the first one to ever do this" I have heard of multiple people getting that story from multiple different builders. I would rather hear "sorry let me try to make it right"
 

Fastorange

New member
Jan 31, 2009
256
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ohio
No argument there. It's a reality that it can happen and is even more likely the bigger you go. I'm unimpressed with the stories of "this is the first one to ever do this" I have heard of multiple people getting that story from multiple different builders. I would rather hear "sorry let me try to make it right"

Im right behind you on that... ive heard about the trouble many shops have had not just what the OP has said... im not defending anyone here... but is seems that alot of people get put on the back burner or you hear nothing for awile and then ya get welp dunno what to tell ya...
 

Stingpuller

The Pusher Man
Jan 11, 2007
2,019
35
48
57
central Ohio
Engines

I have run my personal motor with my pistons coming out at .026. The block would need decked to square up all four sides to make them the same. I would try and get them the same.
 

juddski88

Freedom Diesel
Jul 1, 2008
4,655
120
63
Chesterfield, Mass.
The protrusion wasn't a big issue until the heads were put on with c gaskets and the valves hit the pistons...both motors utilized stock heads, shaved and true, same with the blocks...decked and true. I'll also add they were done by two different machine shops, but both reputable, one being the shop i just had correct my block this summer. If the heads had been rebuilt, and the valves recessed a few thou, it wouldnt have been an issue, but that is not fixing the issue. The fact was the pistons were not all equal after being taken out and measured. From randys, some pistons had been fly cut more than others
 

2006 LBZ

New member
Feb 8, 2011
195
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0
Calgary, Ab.
Talked with friend who builds a lot of heads. What I said about where those heads came from isn't necessarily right and I want to correct it. Heads can have casting flaws that become a factor when ported and material is removed. You can't tell by looking, it'll pass pressure testing but fail in use. It happens, and can happen to anyone who does this kind of work.

I agree it can happen to anyone, but what about the gaskets on the wrong sides of the motor, being able to rock the valve springs around up to .750" because the retainers are wrong (youtube a "spintron test") scratches through piston coatings, pitted deck surface on the one head (somebody let that go for sure since it was a fresh decking job) injectors that are clocked wrong on the solenoid body ect ect ect.

I suppose any of this could happen to anyone.... but it wont happen to me again thats for damn sure. I have unlimited access to any machine i need to use to build a motor and wont be looking for a good deal next time around.
 

TopFueler

New member
Dec 27, 2011
23
0
0
Failed Engine

When you contacted us the first time about the head gaskets being installed wrong, my engine builder didn't want to believe that he had done such a thing. He does know how to install head gaskets! When we saw that he had done exactly that, we admited to it and was wanting to work out what would be the best policy to make you whole again. You was the one that said (No problem I will put new head gaskets in and just send me a bunch of shirts, sweaters and hats etc.) We sent them. The next problem you called us about was this cracked head problem. We told you our warranty policy that includes you sending the engine back for us to diagnose the failure. You said that you would do so. We have never received the engine back for warranty consideration. We do need to see what failed and why. We and Randy are very honest people and would take care of any warranty that is ours. You have not given us a chance. You now have someone else cutting the head apart. We have worked extremely hard in cutting heads apart mesuring were we can do porting and where we should not. The reaserch that we put into what can be done was extensive. We port our heads on a CNC Porting machine. This is light years better for porting heads consistently. I am not saying that we are perfect. I am saying that we have not been given a chance to see the failure. You have NEVER talked to me about this. I have to have a good customer email me and say you should read this thread.

Thanks, Brady Williams
Industrial Injection Diesel Performance
 

Utahski

New member
Oct 20, 2008
546
0
0
Northern Utah
I agree it can happen to anyone, but what about the gaskets on the wrong sides of the motor, being able to rock the valve springs around up to .750" because the retainers are wrong (youtube a "spintron test") scratches through piston coatings, pitted deck surface on the one head (somebody let that go for sure since it was a fresh decking job) injectors that are clocked wrong on the solenoid body ect ect ect.

I suppose any of this could happen to anyone.... but it wont happen to me again thats for damn sure. I have unlimited access to any machine i need to use to build a motor and wont be looking for a good deal next time around.

You're right. I know the guy who pulled that engine apart and those heads are one thing. The other stuff should never happen. Since the shortblock was fine, no reason to pull it, crate it, ship it all the way back.... I wouldn't do it either.
 

PACougar

Active member
Jun 27, 2012
2,105
1
36
41
El Dorado Hills, Ca
You're right. I know the guy who pulled that engine apart and those heads are one thing. The other stuff should never happen. Since the shortblock was fine, no reason to pull it, crate it, ship it all the way back.... I wouldn't do it either.

If I found that stuff wrong I wouldn't want to ship it back to them so they could screw something else up. People do make mistakes, however some mistakes should never happen ever! Putting the head gaskets on wrong for instance, I'm not saying nobody else has ever done it but I'm quite sure I can't think of any reputable shop that has done it. I think when you find problems like that should just accept you're taking it up the *** in one fashion or another.
 

2006 LBZ

New member
Feb 8, 2011
195
0
0
Calgary, Ab.
When you contacted us the first time about the head gaskets being installed wrong, my engine builder didn't want to believe that he had done such a thing. He does know how to install head gaskets! When we saw that he had done exactly that, we admited to it and was wanting to work out what would be the best policy to make you whole again. You was the one that said (No problem I will put new head gaskets in and just send me a bunch of shirts, sweaters and hats etc.) We sent them. The next problem you called us about was this cracked head problem. We told you our warranty policy that includes you sending the engine back for us to diagnose the failure. You said that you would do so. We have never received the engine back for warranty consideration. We do need to see what failed and why. We and Randy are very honest people and would take care of any warranty that is ours. You have not given us a chance. You now have someone else cutting the head apart. We have worked extremely hard in cutting heads apart mesuring were we can do porting and where we should not. The reaserch that we put into what can be done was extensive. We port our heads on a CNC Porting machine. This is light years better for porting heads consistently. I am not saying that we are perfect. I am saying that we have not been given a chance to see the failure. You have NEVER talked to me about this. I have to have a good customer email me and say you should read this thread.

Thanks, Brady Williams
Industrial Injection Diesel Performance

Brady, the cylinder head is NOT being cut apart. If you read my original post's correctly you will notice that i have another head cut apart that was cracked 4 years ago. It is in no way shape or form a II head. I will NOT cut these heads apart to reverse engineer them as you seem to think i will.... why would I want a port design that cracks????

I also notified you guys about the spring retainer issues, the scratches in #8 piston, and the valve lash issues found upon initial disassembly. I did agree to the t shirt thing for cost of head gaskets FOR SURE, it was my idea since gaskets would take for ever to come across the boarder.

You have PM'd me to call you..... i have told you twice now that i have lost my job over my attitude towards this hobby ever since these motor issues, and I dont have $100 to spend on a phone call to SLC. This is my fault i know, but its also reality. I hope you can understand that. I got hit with a $450 cell phone bill just for taking a few pics and sending a couple text messages when i was in texas for the world finals.

I also told you that nothing in this diesel world seems to be a big deal until its on the internet, this is just another prime example of that.

I apologize for it coming to this, i have defended your company in the past when others slam II, now i guess im no better than them. I still run your decals on my truck and get tons of comments on the truck and decals. I assure you the port desing is not being copied and the heads are completely in tack sitting on my tool box in storage until i find a job.

As far as the guy that installed the gaskets wrong? Over the phone he told me he does them all that way, even looked at another in your shop at the time and verified. Spring retainers? I was told you guys pulled valve covers off another motor there and verified how loose the retainers were on that motor too. I beg you to look into spintron testing of valve trains, youd be surprised how much these things move when under RPM. You could probably build even better motors if you adapted this testing into your current program. Im glad i was able to teach you guys about duramax cylinder head gasket selection and hopefully proper valve train components in the future. The hmmmm's and haaaaa's over the phone when i called about these issues 7 months ago verify ya'll being unware of the proper procedures.

This pretty much covers everything i was going to respond to your PM with, just found this comment tonight after i got home from looking at a nostalgia fuel funny car to work on next summer.

##edit## forgot to mention about contacting II about the issues with the injector bodies also.
 

2006 LBZ

New member
Feb 8, 2011
195
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0
Calgary, Ab.
You're right. I know the guy who pulled that engine apart and those heads are one thing. The other stuff should never happen. Since the shortblock was fine, no reason to pull it, crate it, ship it all the way back.... I wouldn't do it either.

Had a oil sample test positive for coolant..... II told me no big deal, they had a race motor with over a gallon of coolant in the crank case and it was okay. :rofl:

Antifreeze, oil and bearings do not mix haha.
 

Sledheadxp800r

That was only my tow tune
Dec 13, 2010
1,151
0
0
39
CT
Antifreeze, oil and bearings do not mix haha.


Oh Sure they do. Every time I change my oil I run 6 quarts of oil
And 1 gallon of antifreeze. Just to make sure I'm running the proper Coolant to oil ratio. :roflmao: a GM dealer just told my friend on Tuesday that he had blown headgaskets for 30k miles and that Coolant in his oil was no big deal and he shouldn't be worried about the bearings 1 bit. :roflmao: I love service writers and their BS :thumb: he has a 2011 and has been adding 1 gallon of coolant a week for over 1 year. It took him that long for them to admit he had a problem. :roflmao: he asked me if he should trade it in now or run it until warranty runs out then sell it lol. Holy thread derail.
 
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2006 LBZ

New member
Feb 8, 2011
195
0
0
Calgary, Ab.
Oh Sure they do. Every time I change my oil I run 6 quarts of oil
And 1 gallon of antifreeze. Just to make sure I'm running the proper Coolant to oil ratio. :roflmao: a GM dealer just told my friend on Tuesday that he had blown headgaskets for 30k miles and that Coolant in his oil was no big deal and he shouldn't be worried about the bearings 1 bit. :roflmao: I love service writers and their BS :thumb: he has a 2011 and has been adding 1 gallon of coolant a week for over 1 year. It took him that long for them to admit he had a problem. :roflmao: he asked me if he should trade it in now or run it until warranty runs out then sell it lol

Seems to be getting more and more common with the LML's. GM has a bulliten out about it too. Easiest to pull the cabs on those for head jobs, can beat warranty time that way.
 

ecc_33

Junior Member
Aug 10, 2006
1,925
0
0
39
Amanda, Ohio
My last 02 had injectors go bad at 60,000 miles. Service guy told me to run it. Fuel in the oil was a lubercant. I was like wow really! Why didn't they just put fuel in the crankcase instead of oil then?
 

dmtcm

BigRed
Jul 18, 2011
42
0
6
Wow, and with the amount of money you pour out for one of these 'built" motors, kinda makes you wanna do it yourself if you can. The quality couldn't be any worst?
That motor would have found it's way back to them in the crate it came in and I'd of gotten my money back and went elsewhere.
 

2006 LBZ

New member
Feb 8, 2011
195
0
0
Calgary, Ab.
You're right. I know the guy who pulled that engine apart and those heads are one thing. The other stuff should never happen. Since the shortblock was fine, no reason to pull it, crate it, ship it all the way back.... I wouldn't do it either.

Hey how can you say you know the guy that pulled it apart?? It was me then consulting from our mutial buddy hahaha. :thumb: Hind site is 20/20 I suppose, should had the machine work done at Extreme Engine Development and assembled it myself. What a piece of shit I ended up with.

I`m really just posting tonight to promote it to the front page and expose the false advertising from the big dogs of the biz, hey after all they advertise in diesel power magazine :roflmao: