what engine oil should i use?

[Gone Nomad]

...even with the best oil in the world, oil analysis isn't enough for me, I still have a hard time believing that new oil will break down an engine faster, wtf, that doesn't even make sense

The study DNewton cites as his "proof" is here:

"In one of our previous studies it was observed that engine oil samples collected from fleet vehicles after 12,000 mile drain interval showed 10-15 % lower friction and more importantly, an order of magnitude lower wear rate than those of fresh oils. It was also observed that the composition of the tribochemical films formed was quite different on the surface tested with the drain oils from those formed with fresh oils. The objective of this investigation is to demonstrate how the friction and wear performance changed with oil drain intervals. A fleet of three vehicles was run in Las Vegas and oil samples were collected at various drain intervals from 3000 miles to 15000 miles. As in the previous study, the results showed that the aged engine oils provide lower friction and much improved wear protection capability. These improvements were observed as early as the 3000 mile drain interval and continued to the 15000 mile drain interval. The composition of tribochemical films formed on the surface with the 3000 mile drain interval is similar to that formed with the 12000 mile drain interval as seen before. These findings could be an enabler for achieving longer drain interval although several other factors must to be considered."

That is actually only a summary, since the study itself has to be purchased, which Dnewton says he did, but cannot share with the rest of us because it would be unfair to the copyright holders. So I don't know if there's some other "drawback" to this supposed better lubricating capability at 12,000 miles compared to 3,000 miles, or if this study has some politically motivated bias similar to those about "global warming" (something I wish we had more of this winter!)

 

[NC-smokinlmm]

Rotella

Yep...

It's a waste of money to buy designer oil... Lol...

 

[Magnus]

Which type of Schaeffer motor oil did you buy for use in your DMax?
And roughly how much did it cost?
...from which dealer?

I scored some 9000 5W-40 for $25/gallon and some 7000 15w-40 for $17/gal after tax just buying a few gallons. I also got their 204SAT tranny fluid in a 5gal pail for like $115 I think and did my tranny, a friends tranny, and my t-case. I went to Dean Oil company in Tennessee, but there are supposedly a few other spots in the countryside over the KY border from me.

The 9000 series has an incredible combination of starting TBN, cold weather cranking performance, and an HTHS spec that's off the charts. When you combine that with the fact that it's an American product from a family company (oldest oil blenders in America) and they spend $0 on advertising... I'll give them the extra $2.70/gal over rotella T6 any day.

 

[Magnus]

I'm curious now, which tribe does Dnewton get his chemicals from?

The basic truth is that friction reduction is by and large based on physical oil properties, oil life while exposed to combustion by-products is the chemical side of oil performance... Oil doesn't chemically levitate engine components apart, so trying to discuss film properties as chemically improving over the course of an oils life is ridiculous. The best and simplest explanation is the oil sheared down and lost some additives and the engine liked it better with the newfound physical properties. Maybe there's more to the study, but a lot of people on that forum don't understand the fundamental difference of when to apply chemistry (which none of them even seem to understand) and when to apply physics when talking about oils in an engine

 

[Gone Nomad]

S

I scored some 9000 5W-40 for $25/gallon and some 7000 15w-40 for $17/gal after tax just buying a few gallons. I also got their 204SAT tranny fluid in a 5gal pail for like $115 I think and did my tranny, a friends tranny, and my t-case. I went to Dean Oil company in Tennessee, but there are supposedly a few other spots in the countryside over the KY border from me.

That's a great price, considering that with Tennessee sales tax, even the cheapest synthetic at Walmart (Delo 400 LE Synthetic) would be nearly $22/gal. I like the idea of not paying a premium for marketing and advertising, too. And Schaeffer is a local company for me (I just wish there were more dealers here in St. Louis).

Without getting into the debate that guys like Dnewton would certainly bring up about exactly what constitutes a synthetic oil (since the US legal definition of "synthetic" is not as specific as elsewhere), most manufacturers promote their synthetic oils as having a superior (and more costly) additive package compared to their basic conventional oil. It is my understanding that synthetic oils have higher stability not only at high temperatures (which could be important for turbo bearings), and not only for more hours (mileage) in service, but also over a longer period of time (i.e.: months parked, not hours running). From that standpoint, synthetic oils should be better for vehicles that see very little use most of the time, interspersed by periods of much higher usage, which is a typical pattern for recreational use. It's often easy to overlook that the "traditional" 3,000 mile oil change interval includes a (ridiculously short) time interval of three months, too, which seems to me to be more about ensuring steady sales than anything else.

Another thing that may be overlooked in the cheapest-oil-changed-frequently vs. somewhat-more-expensive-oil*-changed-less-frequently debate is the convenience factor. The oil doesn't change itself. Conventional oil changed frequently doesn't work out as conveniently when taking long recreational trips. Regardless of all the (truly unnecessary) arguments over which approach is better, there should be no disagreement about the convenience of not having to interrupt a long trip to change oil (or being dependent on a visit to an oil change shop).


* and by that I mean one of the less expensive synthetics like Delo or Schaeffer's that are in the $20-$25/gal. range (compared to their $12+/gal. conventional counterparts), not uber-expensive "boutique" oils like Amsoil or Redline. I don't dislike either one of those, by the way. I've used Redline gear oil in manual transmissions (because it was recommended by the guys who had the most experience with those transmissions), and it made a noticeable improvement in how easily the tranny shifted. That's one application where the user can tell "first hand" that not all oils are the same.

 

[ripmf666]

I have use rotella and Mobil 1 noticed they both started getting thinner over time. This was new before they were even ran and they were ticking more after warm. So I started running Champion Blue Flame and the stuff rocks.

 

[Magnus]

The convenience factor is what it comes down to for me... My truck was still being broken in before I left it with my dad, but basically I want one oil that I trust in any situation and can change once a year regardless of mileage while feeling comfortable about my engines expected lifespan.

The Schaeffers 9000 5W-40 has higher HTHS film shear resistance than any comparably priced diesel oil in any viscosity rating. That means with a compound twin setup and an oil cooled S475, pulling hard up a hill at 1000ft-lbs in the middle of the summer with the oil temp climbing really high... My truck has the best quality oil film I can find to protect moving parts. Better than AMSOil AME 15w-40 even. The extremely low pour point and low cold weather kinematic viscosity means in the dead of winter at 0* when I haven't driven my truck in a week and it hasn't been plugged in either, I can crank it and expect it to fire up and achieve an optimum oil film and settle into a smooth idle faster, leaving me feeling less guilty for neglecting my baby. The starting TBN of 10 and high shear resistance poly alpha-olephins mixed with well finished paraffins means I can run it for more miles than I'll ever rack up in one year before oil performance starts degrading noticeably. After testing 8 different oils my unscientific personal results seem to confirm it cold cranks fastest and gets slightly better fuel mileage, and publicly posted virgin oil analysis shows a TBN of 10 and accurate viscosities so I believe the published oil specifications are accurate.

The plan is to change schaeffers 9000 5w-40 with a <20 micron synthetic microglass filter once a year whenever I decide the weather is nice, regardless of mileage I've run. The schaeffers dealer is a little out of the way, but it's worth it to get the best product for a middle of the road price from a phenomenal company. I mean... People whine about buying "boutique oils" but I've driven further under terrible conditions for some crappy beer.

Everyone run what you want to, Rotella, Delo, the John Deere oils (churched up Delo), and Mobil all have solid products with good results. Just nobody skimp on an oil filter and your dmax should outlast your desire to drive it.

 

[Magnus]

I have use rotella and Mobil 1 noticed they both started getting thinner over time. This was new before they were even ran and they were ticking more after warm. So I started running Champion Blue Flame and the stuff rocks.

Most Champ Labs products are very high quality! I scored a pack of 6 royal purple oil filters for like $36 on eBay a year ago... I'm not a royal purple fan, but the filters are made by champ labs and they're absolutely top of the line... 20 micron full synthetic microglass media, heavy gauge can rated to 600+psi, silicone seals, bypass valve, and anti drain back valve with a just slightly higher than stock bypass spring rate... For like $7 each after shipping I was shocked at the quality.

Haven't tried their oil yet though...

 

[Magnus]

I run a K&P serviceable lifetime oil filter that uses a surgical steel grade mesh filter media that traps contaminants down to 12 micron absolute, and down to a possible 6 micron. It out flows the stock stock paper filter's potential at only 1psi
http://www.kandpengineering.com


I also run a PPE oil centrifuge, and I still change the engine oil no later than 7500mi...

And after about 4 or 5 oil changes with both products and the EGR deleted, my oil isn't black anymore immediately after startup, it looks brown @ 1k miles still

There's no way I would run 25k on an oil change, even with the best oil in the world, oil analysis isn't enough for me, I still have a hard time believing that new oil will break down an engine faster, wtf, that doesn't even make sense

Although, when I drove for U.S Express, they weren't changing the oil out of the old N14 in the freightliner for 250k I drove the truck they issued me for a over a year (appx. 150k mi) and they only did an oil analysis and maintenance every three months or so...at one time the (15 years or so ago) one of the tech's told me the newer rigs were testing out "million mile oil"....yeah, good luck with that:joker:





:spit: lol, funny :roflmao:
:rofl:
Agreed

Just so you know, a bunch of companies make the steel surgical mesh filters and claim a lot but I've never seen anything to actually back up the claims. A lot of companies claim to have pioneered some sort of technology nobody is familiar with because it's from Aviation or was developed in NASA research or whatever... I work in the aviation world where NOBODY skimps on the best fluids and filters and people do anything to extend component life, and I can promise you there are no oil centrifuges and all synthetic microglass filter media here at the top.

I think the marketing scheme is that very few people have intimate knowledge of aerospace equipment, so who could possibly recognize false claims? AMSOil points out that turbine engines don't change oil between rebuilds and they run PAO base stocks. Both true, but they don't publish how rapidly most turbine engines burn off their oil supply in normal operating conditions, and that additive packages in turbine oil are sparse because the oil only has to make it 12hrs before sliding past an aerodynamic seal and burning up. Imagine if your 10qt sump burned off 2qts every 8hrs you ran the engine at cruise RPM. Why change oil between rebuilds when you add fresh oil as often as adding diesel?

 

[DURAJETLLY]

Haven't changed the oil on my truck since i got it being he just did it the day before, but the fact theres a FRAM filter on it scares me. It will be getting a Royal purple filter and Schaeffers 7000 ASAP.

 

[plowboy_lbz]

Haven't changed the oil on my truck since i got it being he just did it the day before, but the fact theres a FRAM filter on it scares me. It will be getting a Royal purple filter and Schaeffers 7000 ASAP.

Mobile 1 and shaeffers :thumb:

 

[btfarm]

It's the semi-annual Mobil Delvac rebate offer time again. If you run dino 15w40 then this is as good as any of 'em. $5 per gallon rebate or $25 per 5 gal pail. Been doing it twice a year for quite some time. There are restrictions on where you can buy it (read NOT Wallyworld) though. I used exclusively Rotella for years but this deal can't be beat and I actually think my DMax likes it better. They run a rabate program on Mobil1 for gassers at the same time so I usually stock up for the Tahoe and JD mower tractors.

 

[Hot COCOAL]

Does anyone have a list of the oils that have the most amount of zinc found in the oil?

I'm curious about finding the oil that has the highest zinc content...
I've read redline, champion blue flame and schaffers are the top three for diesel oils and was just wondering if anyone could confirm or deny that.

I'm looking specifically for a good break in oil for the new LBZ engine, no emissions on it so using oil that has an additive package that's not "cat friendly" or is "off road oil" is fine if not preferred. I've also read that over extended intervals or even past 2500mi, high zinc content oils can potentially cause more wear than oil with a lower zinc level, anybody have some info they could share on that?

I also need a good break in oil for my LS2, to break in a new cam and valve train
Thanks-

Jason

 

[durallymax]

You can buy break in oils, or zinc additives.

From what I know it was really only a huge deal on flat tappet cams. Zinc is still a good additive, but the newer oils use newer additives that work well also, they didn't just get rid of them.

 

[Hot COCOAL]

You can buy break in oils, or zinc additives.

From what I know it was really only a huge deal on flat tappet cams. Zinc is still a good additive, but the newer oils use newer additives that work well also, they didn't just get rid of them.

Yeah, I know here are still additives in modern oils, for whatever reasons I was under the impression that zinc had been removed from most oil and that's what got me looking...

I was thinking about using RedLine or Joe Gibbs break in oil, in the LS2 and haven't nailed down a good break in oil for the Duramax yet. It would seem like most guys just use a conventional "Dino" oil for the first 1000mi or so and switch to a synthetic, and allot of guys tend to stick with conventional oils and have no problems goin that route either...

I'm a big proponent for changing oil frequently and while I don't believe all oil is the same, I'm not sold on any sort of "super oil" either. I just want to do what's best for my engine from the get go and if there's a "better" way or better oil to use to break in a Duramax I'd sure like to know about it!

On a side note.
On a fresh Duramax engine that's never had oil in it, or been completely drained and whatnot for shipping purposes, is there a way to prime the oiling system?

Melling has a oil system primer that primes Gassers, like the one here (skip to 1:30 in the vid to see the system primer used on LS type engines):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tOYLlr8uQ8k

Could that be used for a duramax?

 

[D-MAX Mafia]

Rotella T6 and Lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer, since it was new. I change it when the computer shows 15-20%. Just hit 181k miles. Idles smooth, no smoke and will run off and leave most vehicles on the road.

It's also an LBZ..... ;-)

 

[DenaliHDGoliath]

AMSOil 50,000 miles

I have three Commercial accounts and all of which run their Semi trucks and 3500/4500 Kodiaks with AMSOil Dual ByPass (with largest filters) for 50,000+ miles. Believe me I think it is insane but some of these rigs have 350,000 to 450,000 miles on them and they purr like new. They have been running them this way for a while. Rotella is good and all if you are changing it every other day...the guys adding the Lucas are doing it smart...maximizing the lubrication. I wouldn't run Rotella in my 20 year old push lawnmower but that's IMO. Not trying to sell you on AMSOil but I have been selling it for a long time and my customer base just keeps growing, mainly because the tests are there and I tear down motors on race bikes that run it to show minimal wear and tear. My wear rates are so much better than that of a bike running other competitors....I don't know if it is the oil or the builds but something is going right.

 

[lts1ow]

2 posts and the second is all about dat amsoil koolaid... :rofl:

 

[NC-smokinlmm]

2 posts and the second is all about dat amsoil koolaid... :rofl:

Obviously he's not here to add to the collective intellect. Just wants to sell us something...

 

[c20elephant]

2 posts and the second is all about dat amsoil koolaid... :rofl:

Obviously he's not here to add to the collective intellect. Just wants to sell us something...

Send him over to DieselPlace and let Dnewton3 put him in his place about how well any properly certified dino or synthetic oil does in the Duramax engine. He has thousands of UOA's in his database on just the Duramax alone.

Member #2 of the "OIL is OIL" association
I used to use dino oil because I didn't know any better.

Then, I used synthetics because I thought they were "best".

Now, I use dino, because I know the truth!

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