Twins with Twins, Anyone?

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,539
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Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
Here is where all that power hits the water.

First drive is bolted up.
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kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
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This was literally a month of pure hell that Ken and I went through to get to this point but we both learned a lot with it! I definitely want to ride in it now for some fine tuning in the correct environment...:hug:

Before I move to far into the next stages of the build, I wanted to give a big shoutout to MarkBroviak, Larry, and all the crew at Danville Performance for allowing me to basically live in their shop for a month. It's a super clean facility, and I'm a major slob, just ask my wife, or Mark for that matter.. lol

Anyways I borrowed countless tools, made plenty of messes, and ate every bag of Cheetos up front in the customer waiting area. Even left my junkass broke down cumbucket parked in the side lot for a week, while taking up a second spot with one of my rental car"S"..

When I finally did a bypass belt on my locked up AC pump, and then the dam Dodge tries to kill me on I70 four times hauling one of the Duramax engines home. DEATH WOBBLE!! Called that for a good reason.. Guess it was pissed I'd left it parked beside a blown up Powerstroke for over a week, then tossed a Duramax in the bed and expected it to get me home. Which it did, at 45mph on side roads in the pouring rain for 5hrs.

That's just one of the 4 trips over and back. Every one had some stupid adventure added. Like week of FFA convention, every hotel booked, so I went AirBnB and slept in a barn one night.. And I haven't even got started on the fab work, electrical gremlins, dyno issues, oil leaks, coolant leaks, belts eating the cam sensors, or Mark making a dang good effort at removing a knuckle while machining out some exhaust V-band flanges. If he's slow to reply on email, it's cause he was down to only 6 working fingers and was typing with thumbs when I last saw him...

Hope that gives ya an Idea of what went into testing and tuning these engines. According to all our logs, we started out around 640hp, and some 20 "logged" pulls later was finally happily into the 900's, on the second engine. Sure we could have just tossed some huge injectors in there and a big single off the shelf and been done within a week. But goal was to do this cleanly, slowly, and test all hardware as if it was running in a boat. So once I drop them in the boat, no big surprises like the cooling system can't keep up. Or better yet, those twins are too big and can't make enough boost to get the boat on plane. Remember, we a buying "2" of everything on this job.

If you go back several pages someone ask how I was doing things differently than the guys in Utah building my buddies C powered Skater engines. To which I replied, "not going to just toss em in and drop the hammer." We spent a good bit of time doing part throttle stuff fully loaded in the 500-700hp range logging data. Then moved up to WOT loaded runs, and confirmed the twins wern't gonna achieve the power we needed, cleanly. And guess who has more dyno data on different turbo setups than probably Gale Banks?

So I ended up learning a lot about turbos, and Mark learned why he never wants to own a boat that uses more than oars for power. I'd love to spent another week testing with larger injectors and the new turbos, but some guy from Exergy wanted to play with his fancy Cummins engine.. Lucky for him one of mine started leaking past the head gaskets, and I'd all ready hauled the second engine home. :spit:

I'll post up some new pics taken over the month for everyone to enjoy. Mark has at least 100hrs of video footage to share, if he could figure out how to use his dang DVR. :hug:
 

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,539
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Somewhere On The Ohio
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Week 1
 

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kidturbo

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Jul 21, 2010
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Week 2 & 3.

But maxed out my storage.. How about a little extra room admins?
 

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kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
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I can't believe she lost a head gasket that quick at that power level. Just bad luck.
It never blew, just burped a 16psi cap once. We ran another hour at less load and no problem.

But once I watched all the videos, you could see that it was slowly building pressure in the cooling system on all the plus 750hp runs according to our gauge. Since the Evans coolant doesn't boil till 375F, it's either serious hot spots, or a gasket is leaking.

First engine never showed these pressure spikes, or breached 750hp. So gotta say it's those OEM LML gaskets we used. I'd love to blame Dustin who did the assembly, but he works at GM dealer and was person who first alerted me to possible issue with these new gaskets. He's seen em blown at 20k miles, driven by people who never even towed a trailer.

Still gonna make him help me change em.. lol. And I get to do full inspection on the top end for free.

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kidturbo

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Jul 21, 2010
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ARP230-4201 studs. C gaskets, don't recall what they are torqued at, was two years ago...

Dustin said GM sent out a SB on the LML gasket issue shortly after we purchased those. Know he's changed a couple dozen at work. I seriously thought they would leak at lower power levels.

While neither Mark or I recorded that run on our phones, when we replayed the DVR, you could see gauge creeping up from 5-12psi, then it just popped 20psi and the cap released. With no catch can, couldn't miss it. Didn't have the cyl pressure probe connected either. But we both agreed it leaked somewhere. Bet the Victor's resolve the issue.

EDIT: From quick google search, owner of a 3000 mile LML truck towing 12k lbs. Offsite Link
 
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Chevy1925

don't know sh!t about IFS
Staff member
Oct 21, 2009
21,685
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Phoenix Az
Yeah you just got me thinking about mine. I’ve got A’s but running a1 h11 torqued at 150ft lbs. got about 20k on them and abusing the hell out of them during the summer at 240+* coolant temps, 3k rpm and probably around 3-400rwhp durning the time and maybe a quick stint for 600 to get around someone. Hoping they hold out till I redo the engine in a couple years
 

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
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I wouldn't be very worried if yours isn't evaporating coolant. My issue could be totally unrelated, no idea yet.. We'd been data logging about everything possible, but the seawater and coolant reservoir pressure gauges were just old analog dials I pulled out of the boat. So those were only captured on cell phone video.

After lunch we'd popped Marks Bullseye cartridge in there and brought the engine up to 155F. Then just shoved throttle down for 10 seconds and let the dyno start doing it's thing to get new numbers real quick. Was looking good up to about 3800R, then we saw liquid shoot across the room. When I looked up the pressure gauge was at zero, so I knew what it was.

According to Evans you should never see more that 2-3psi on your cooling system. Which makes for a great way to test for any cyl press leaks.. On the first engine, that was certainly the case. But on this engine, it seemed to make a couple PSI more on average once the RPM's and load came up. And we thrashed on both engines pretty good, for extended time periods to replicate real world in the boat.

Plan is now have my engine machinist buddy check both heads for true, then put it behind me. Luckily both heads can be pulled in like 30min, I'll post some pics when I yank em. But for a non o-ring stock head setup, I'm really happy with the performance. Heck I was happy at 800hp loaded where these will likely be limited once they go into the boat. But customer wanted to see numbers closer to 1000hp, cause HP looks good on paper as Leno says.. lol

The easy math is the old pair of blown BBC's making around 685tq at 6500r pushed a 12k lbs of boat up to 96mph. I believe these diesels making only 1200ft-lbs each at 3600rpm shouldn't have any trouble matching that speed. And ya won't ketch me pushing this hull much above 100mph anyways, so there ya go.. :D
 

MarkBroviak

DMax Junkie
Vendor/Sponsor
May 25, 2008
2,134
464
83
Danville Indiana
Before I move to far into the next stages of the build, I wanted to give a big shoutout to MarkBroviak, Larry, and all the crew at Danville Performance for allowing me to basically live in their shop for a month. It's a super clean facility, and I'm a major slob, just ask my wife, or Mark for that matter.. lol

Anyways I borrowed countless tools, made plenty of messes, and ate every bag of Cheetos up front in the customer waiting area. Even left my junkass broke down cumbucket parked in the side lot for a week, while taking up a second spot with one of my rental car"S"..

When I finally did a bypass belt on my locked up AC pump, and then the dam Dodge tries to kill me on I70 four times hauling one of the Duramax engines home. DEATH WOBBLE!! Called that for a good reason.. Guess it was pissed I'd left it parked beside a blown up Powerstroke for over a week, then tossed a Duramax in the bed and expected it to get me home. Which it did, at 45mph on side roads in the pouring rain for 5hrs.

That's just one of the 4 trips over and back. Every one had some stupid adventure added. Like week of FFA convention, every hotel booked, so I went AirBnB and slept in a barn one night.. And I haven't even got started on the fab work, electrical gremlins, dyno issues, oil leaks, coolant leaks, belts eating the cam sensors, or Mark making a dang good effort at removing a knuckle while machining out some exhaust V-band flanges. If he's slow to reply on email, it's cause he was down to only 6 working fingers and was typing with thumbs when I last saw him...

Hope that gives ya an Idea of what went into testing and tuning these engines. According to all our logs, we started out around 640hp, and some 20 "logged" pulls later was finally happily into the 900's, on the second engine. Sure we could have just tossed some huge injectors in there and a big single off the shelf and been done within a week. But goal was to do this cleanly, slowly, and test all hardware as if it was running in a boat. So once I drop them in the boat, no big surprises like the cooling system can't keep up. Or better yet, those twins are too big and can't make enough boost to get the boat on plane. Remember, we a buying "2" of everything on this job.

If you go back several pages someone ask how I was doing things differently than the guys in Utah building my buddies C powered Skater engines. To which I replied, "not going to just toss em in and drop the hammer." We spent a good bit of time doing part throttle stuff fully loaded in the 500-700hp range logging data. Then moved up to WOT loaded runs, and confirmed the twins wern't gonna achieve the power we needed, cleanly. And guess who has more dyno data on different turbo setups than probably Gale Banks?

So I ended up learning a lot about turbos, and Mark learned why he never wants to own a boat that uses more than oars for power. I'd love to spent another week testing with larger injectors and the new turbos, but some guy from Exergy wanted to play with his fancy Cummins engine.. Lucky for him one of mine started leaking past the head gaskets, and I'd all ready hauled the second engine home. :spit:

I'll post up some new pics taken over the month for everyone to enjoy. Mark has at least 100hrs of video footage to share, if he could figure out how to use his dang DVR. :hug:

Lol, I knew going into this project that I was going to be pulling my hair out on it! Ken is a great guy and good friend through all of it and that is the reason why I wanted to help him out with it and it was a break from the normal day to day that I do. As Ken said, he is a bit unorganized but that comes with the territory lol. I am very glad to have been able to get him and Dave to their goals with it and do it as reliably and safely as possible. This is a huge deal because of the pain staking measure that we went through to verify and test everything to make sure it would not only work but live for more than 30 seconds at power! This testing was unlike anything we do in the truck market because you just never do anything like this other than towing out west in the mountains to sustain the load for long durations and we all know how that works with big power lol. I personally can't wait to go for a ride in this boat when it is fully assembled and ready to make waves! Definitely going to be one of the coolest boats on the water and I'm glad to be a small part of the team, thanks Ken!:hug:
 

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,539
1,377
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
Maybe we'll go test this pig in Florida Mark. Either that, or pack your parka...

Still fighting the flu here, but managed to yank a head off first engine yesterday. Above I said it should take a good mechanic with power tools less than an hour to pull both heads. Jacked up on sudafed, with simple hand tools and no breaker bar, just under 2.

Attached is the step by step tear down pics. Valvetrain all looked good, beside #2 exhaust rocker was a bit "0.35" loose. I didn't set em, so will remove and inspect the lobe and lifter before beating up on the guy who did.. lol

The head gaskets, ah,, no signs of leaking on this one, but not impressed with GM's design update. Looks like a $30 gasket.

Then I wiped the soot off top of one piston, said F-It, and went back to bed. :mad:
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