Twins with Twins, Anyone?

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,364
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
Sting, I'm also attempting to make these field trips valid business expenses. I would have bought your lunch, then written off the whole day... You missed out on the Callies freebies.

Don't worry, I might run back up and snag them when done.
 

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,364
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas...

Boxes arrived today with snow covered piston tops and coned out pins. Also 16 shiny new rods with a freshly narrowed big end. Now if I could just figure out where cylinder #10 is I'd have it made..

:patriotic2:
 

Attachments

  • 20160628_213519.jpg
    20160628_213519.jpg
    123.3 KB · Views: 147
  • 20160628_213634.jpg
    20160628_213634.jpg
    99.1 KB · Views: 151
  • 20160628_213844.jpg
    20160628_213844.jpg
    201.4 KB · Views: 163

PureHybrid

Isuzu Shakes IT
Feb 15, 2012
3,492
472
83
Central OH
Have you ever thought about relief cutting the big end to let oil escape from between the rods? Since it will be sustained high rpm.
 

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,364
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
Have you ever thought about relief cutting the big end to let oil escape from between the rods? Since it will be sustained high rpm.

Actually yes. I looked at how several big engine builders do it on high HP gas marine engines. Then I measured that first pair of thinned rods on one of the new Callies cranks. Had about 0.021 clearance between them cut to specs from Jeremy's rod guy. That's right at GM's service limits.

Once we receive the finished cranks there will be plenty more measuring. With this pressurized pin oiling setup, need to consider these implications closer. Have been polling everyone I know running these rods for better data on this setup. Including their designer Curtis H, who explained these drilled bearings I purchased with the rods are all wrong...

Besides being P bearings rather than H, Curtis tells me the drilled hole doesn't belong directly over the hole through center of the rod. Reason for the slot cut shown below, is to allow both crank and rod oiling holes to meet where they align with specific crank angle on the downward stroke. Thus pressurizing the pin only when it's unloaded. Explains that slot..

Also see the tang location after the rods were cut to new journal specs. There isn't much extra meat on these Dmax cranks to begin with. I'd loved to had time to explore a larger main journal dia to increase rod journal overlap as some have suggested. Then your adding some serious meat to that area, more than a mere 0.045 each side by narrowing the rod journal.
 

Attachments

  • 20160629_011809.jpg
    20160629_011809.jpg
    81.9 KB · Views: 114
  • 20160629_011452.jpg
    20160629_011452.jpg
    57.1 KB · Views: 109
  • 20160629_013157.jpg
    20160629_013157.jpg
    115.9 KB · Views: 109

IOWA LLY

Yes, its really me
Feb 23, 2007
2,275
4
0
So are you still able to use stock width Rod bearings? Or do those have to be cut down as well?

Couldn't Wagler or Callies tell you if there was enough meat in the block to go to a larger main journal?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,364
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
When I was at Callies we talked about the main size, but it's not something anyone has done yet far as I know. If so, all those junk blocks out there with spun mains would be usable again. I'd love see someone do the math and try it. Just not enough time on this build, or would I want to test on 2 engines that are not mine.

On the upper grooved bearings, that's what go me on the subject with Curtis. Several sites show that rod with grooved upper. But according to him, it takes away too much bearing surface, and was never tested or designed for it. Nor could I find anyone who's running that grooved bearing. So....
 
Last edited:

malibu795

misspeelleerr
Apr 28, 2007
8,231
548
113
42
in the buckeye state
When I was at Callies we talked about the main size, but it's not something anyone has done yet far as I know. If so, all those junk blocks out there with spun mains would be usable again. I'd love see someone do the math and try it. Just not enough time on this build, or would I want to test on 2 engines that are not mine.

On the upper grooved bearings, that's what go me on the subject with Curtis. Several sites show that rod with grooved upper. But according to him, it takes away too much bearing surface, and was never tested or designed for it. Nor could I find anyone who's running that grooved bearing. So....
Gake banks runs enlarged rod pins on their cranks . To increase rod/main pin overlap.. especially on their stroked crankshaft.. talked to him via fb back in Jan/Feb time frame.. stuff was posted on the company page in june.

https://m.facebook.com/bankspower/p...6355374454/1326572600706151/?type=3&source=54
 

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,364
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
Mailbu; that's an interesting take on strengthening. I know Mercedes enlarged the mains on their diesels with good success. Owning one I can say, gotta respect the Germans. However I do like those rods he chose. Ford and Dodge use same design.

While sizing up oil pans and covers yesterday I took some pics of the changes GM made to rear covers on the LML. See pics below of an early medium duty [dirty] and newer LML [clean] water ports going into the blocks. GM added a smaller orifice on the drivers side port to restrict the coolant flow into that half of the block. Guessing they were seeing issues with passenger side cooling to justify the change.

Our cooling approach right now is using a 55gmp electric with the closed loop system. Then feed each bank equally from that electric circulation pump. Hope that resolves any cavitation issues with running high RPM for extended periods.
 

Attachments

  • 20160715_232455.jpg
    20160715_232455.jpg
    139.7 KB · Views: 133
  • 20160715_232448.jpg
    20160715_232448.jpg
    143 KB · Views: 125

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,364
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
88.4lbs is what the scale says an internal balanced billet crank weights in at..

Add 8 shiny 5lb piston and rod combo's brings us up to 128lbs of rotating mass, not counting flywheel and harmonic balancer. I know the flywheels will be right at 75lbs, so with the balancer lets round it all up to an even 230lbs of spinning steel. If that don't dampen some harmonics, I don't know what will... :spit:

You can also see where I had the Malory tack welded into the throw's before final balance. They claimed pressing them in with loctight has been the standard for years. But with the crank setting only 5 inches from the bottom of the boat, I wanted a little extra insurance it doesn't grenade without warning.

Also look at the new timing gear (optional) andd nice lead in chamfer on the mains. These cranks are actually polished so fine you can even photograph them without a glare. LOL
 

Attachments

  • 20160728_212534.jpg
    20160728_212534.jpg
    165.4 KB · Views: 126
  • 20160728_212701.jpg
    20160728_212701.jpg
    165.9 KB · Views: 126
  • 20160728_213115.jpg
    20160728_213115.jpg
    131.1 KB · Views: 142
  • 20160728_215252.jpg
    20160728_215252.jpg
    152 KB · Views: 139
  • 20160728_220638.jpg
    20160728_220638.jpg
    149.1 KB · Views: 137

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,364
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
The rod clearance came in right where we wanted. Which I'm still amazed how we accomplished that without first having the cranks.

Lastly, block was decked 005, piston cut 010, and they still managed to stick out 001...

Rings are cut, clearance testing is done, head are off to the machine shop. So now it's time to give everything a final cleaning and assemble it for real. After keeping him till 1AM test fitting everything, my engine builder left for a weeks vacation... :( He wasn't getting out of town till I knew nothing needed tweaked.
 

Attachments

  • 20160728_234025.jpg
    20160728_234025.jpg
    174.2 KB · Views: 135
  • 20160728_234340.jpg
    20160728_234340.jpg
    123.7 KB · Views: 131
  • 20160728_224037.jpg
    20160728_224037.jpg
    133.3 KB · Views: 139

kidturbo

Piston Tester
Jul 21, 2010
2,537
1,364
113
Somewhere On The Ohio
www.marinemods.us
Came home tonight to find a couple tubes marked FRAGILE left at the door. That's the last of the rotating pieces since second crank arrived yesterday.

Securing a pair of AF cams on short notice proved to be about as hard has buying 2 billet cranks.

Gonna give Jeremy's stage one's a try. He had two on the shelf, and actually has people who answer the phone... Even gave me some specs about the grind before I bought them. Freaking Amazing.

:thumb:
 

Attachments

  • 20160802_221525.jpg
    20160802_221525.jpg
    137.9 KB · Views: 115