Twins with Twins, Anyone?

kidturbo

kidturbo

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1FastBrick said:
And look where that got you... :ROFLMAO:

I do have a question for you though, Do you ever lap the deck surface?
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Some days, wonder what I'd be doing if I'd yanked that LLY and dropped a 6Leaker Power Stroke in there as was my thoughts back then. I'd learned plenty about head studs by now I bet..

To answer your question, does an air grinder with cleaning disk count??
 
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kidturbo

kidturbo

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Bdsankey said:
Maybe time to look into the PPE iron heads unless you think it was a fluke? Wondering if they might provide better heat handling characteristics than the OEM aluminum heads for how these engines will get used.
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At a sportsman club meeting this evening and a friend ask me if I'd seen the Dmax cast iron heads. First I'd heard of them. Said he watched a video about them few days back. And big selling point was, no warping..

Someone school me please. Anyone put any power to em yet?
 
1FastBrick

1FastBrick

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kidturbo said:
Some days, wonder what I'd be doing if I'd yanked that LLY and dropped a 6Leaker Power Stroke in there as was my thoughts back then. I'd learned plenty about head studs by now I bet..

To answer your question, does an air grinder with cleaning disk count??
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No.
Lapping the decks Involves using a flat surface with a fine abrasive and going over the deck surface to improve the finish.
I do this with a Flat stone that I wrap in Wet/Dry Sand Paper and WD40.

This guy has way to much time on his hands but he does an excellent job showing of showing the before, after and what he achieved as a result of his hard work. He is long winded... Sorry about that. I couldn't find a better example right now.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoTEmUv3IAs&ab_channel=TooManyToys

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPPO6w3B7Ok&ab_channel=TooManyToys
 
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Bdsankey

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kidturbo said:
At a sportsman club meeting this evening and a friend ask me if I'd seen the Dmax cast iron heads. First I'd heard of them. Said he watched a video about them few days back. And big selling point was, no warping..

Someone school me please. Anyone put any power to em yet?
Click to expand...

kidturbo said:
Ok watched video, and made it to the 1:20 mark where he says 85Lbs each. So,,,, back to our previous discussion... :)
Click to expand...

I don't know of anyone who put power to them yet. I know multiple pullers in our area have gone to replaceable deck iron heads to fight this issue in the past.

85lb each is a heavy hit for sure.
 
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kidturbo

kidturbo

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1FastBrick said:
No.
Lapping the decks Involves using a flat surface with a fine abrasive and going over the deck surface to improve the finish.
I do this with a Flat stone that I wrap in Wet/Dry Sand Paper and WD40.

This guy has way to much time on his hands but he does an excellent job showing of showing the before, after and what he achieved as a result of his hard work. He is long winded... Sorry about that. I couldn't find a better example right now.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoTEmUv3IAs&ab_channel=TooManyToys

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPPO6w3B7Ok&ab_channel=TooManyToys
Click to expand...
Having a bit of experience with 6leaker head studs, and chitty Black Onyx gaskets, I actually enjoyed viewing his work on this subject. As well noted on the Ford forums, the first go do Ford fix of studs and different gaskets bit about every tech who fell for some good advertising. I personally followed the path step by step, and as widely experienced, my truck made it exactly 25k miles before the heads came back off. Fix for me along with most others, plane the heads, ARP studs, use the Ford gaskets. That engine still going strong today, and it had 200k when I sold it back in 2016. Hot tuned since 70k. However we are talking steel heads on the 6Leaker, and still those warped due to junk gaskets..

www.powerstrokenation.com

ARP Studs + Black ONYX gaskets= FAIL

www.powerstrokenation.com www.powerstrokenation.com

In the second video above he discovered what I feel is the possible issue I'm encountering right now. Bolt position plays a bigger role in clamping force than we have talked about here so far. He compares Fords stretch degree method vs actual torque values noted. The true torque values aligned perfectly with row they were in, rather than all being equal using Fords degree of rotation method on the stretch bolts. 10lbs lower on the bottom row. What I felt removing the nuts on this engine, lines up with that perfectly. But I'm guessing 20-30lbs difference between rows on this Duramax.

And I was joking about lapping with a disk. Back in my younger days, I was all into achieving the perfect deck surface contact. Also side chamfered crank oil passages, all the bearings, plastigauge everything, exactly aligning every ring gap. Just being totally anal on every aspect of assembly based off what the top engine builder were doing at the time. Not so much into that any more.

Which brings me to, if we fire ring these blocks, doesn't that cover any surface imperfection issues? Only warning I've received about ringing was getting those puppies the right depth so it doesn't hold the head up and allow coolant to blow out the sides.
 
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kidturbo

kidturbo

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Bdsankey said:
I don't know of anyone who put power to them yet. I know multiple pullers in our area have gone to replaceable deck iron heads to fight this issue in the past.

85lb each is a heavy hit for sure.
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I'll look for Joe at PRI, and at least have a listen. But my guinea pig days are about done on this project. Don't have it left in me this close to the finish line. Outa 6yrs, probably 3 of them been spent resolving other peoples latest and greatest, your the first person,,, issues.

170lbs per engine equals one big chic setting back on the swim platform. Or 50 gallons of extra fuel onboard. Probably 4mph off the top end..
 
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Bdsankey

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kidturbo said:
I'll look for Joe at PRI, and at least have a listen. But my guinea pig days are about done on this project. Don't have it left in me this close to the finish line. Outa 6yrs, probably 3 of them been spent resolving other peoples latest and greatest, your the first person,,, issues.

170lbs per engine equals one big chic setting back on the swim platform. Or 50 gallons of extra fuel onboard. Probably 4mph off the top end..
Click to expand...
It's not an 85lb gain per head, it's ~50lb gain per head. That 85lb number is assembled head weight.
 
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kidturbo

kidturbo

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Bdsankey said:
It's not an 85lb gain per head, it's ~50lb gain per head. That 85lb number is assembled head weight.
Click to expand...
I slept thru math class.. 100lbs per engine isn't horrible I guess.
Have to tell the ladies to leave their purses on the dock due to recent engine modifications.

Say we ring em, and send em as is for this round. Still can't say why the other engine is so darn happy with exact same parts. Gonna speak with my marinized C buddies on what they have noted over 1000hr on 800hp 5.9 builds with cast head. Their customer is likely as real world rough on things as ya get. Maybe haul this one down and stick it on their endless water supply dyno for a quick 1hr loaded cycle before setting back in the boat.
 
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Bdsankey

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kidturbo said:
Is there a good location to check head thickness?

I have a few spares setting around and thinking maybe do a comparison before I true up these again.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Maybe check the thickness from the bottom of the injector bore to the deck surface?
 
kidturbo

kidturbo

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Happy New Year everyone.

Had a nice chat today with my FL marine diesel buddies and gained a ton of insight on head studs and torque. They went as deep as load cells under the nuts data level..

While their bread and butter is 5.9 C power, they were also early pioneers of Dmax marinization, and worked with Curtis H back in the days well before the PPE boat was built. The first ever weleded up dry sump pan still sets on a shelf there. Along with a couple LLY test dummies, that probably last fired in like 08.

When I brought up my head gasket issues, and if they had ever experienced it in the past, the answer was, "that was our main problem." And those were sub 700hp dmax builds back then.

However the best data I got comes from the C platform work and years of trial and error, o-rings, no-rings, and finally multi-layer gaskets and high $ custom studs. We talked bottomed vs 1/4 backed, and re-torqued hot cold, and even after ttied an hour on the dyno, back em off, and run em all down again..

The winning combo at 800, no rings, MLS gaskets, top shelf studs, bottomed out, 3 step normal torque sequence, then one at a time, fully backed off, right straight back to the full 160ftlbs. Years later, they said they seldom see a failure. To which I said, I'll be back shortly with one ready to spin up and test your theory...

The going from O-ringed cyl, back to none has me pondering.. Over past few weeks I've got to see some 15-16L Cats and Detroits apart, and while they share sleeved blocks, the O-rings or not, seems to be an industry secret of why. But main thing I took away from my chat today, usr best studs money can by...






Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
 
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1FastBrick

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Glad you got some insight, Looking forward to see what you come up with.

On a side note, I believe the PPE boat is currently for sale...

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TheBac

TheBac

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Hey Ken, In another thread, a person had issues with SoCal injector holddowns breaking. Was it you who had issues with those parts in the past?
 
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