Help: torquing converter bolts
- Thread starter maine04max
- Start date
One question I have in all this.
Approximately how many degrees of rotation does a 1/2" dia bolt see with every 1 ft/lb of torque applied to it??
Reason I ask this is because of the pics ben posted. If its a small degree of rotation for every ft/lb applied, then that measurement of how far the bolt is rotated with and without an extension could be wrong.
Say 1 ft/lb is equal to 1* of rotation. If that bolt looks like it has rotated back to the same location but is actually off by 5 or 6*, that would not be visible to the naked eye and yet your torque yield with and without the extensions could still differ by up to 5 or 6 ft/lbs.
However, if one ft/lb of torque is equal to 5* of rotation, that would be visible to the naked eye if you were off by 10* and yet your torque yield would still be off by only 2 ft/lbs..... not critical in my book, but what do I know
This is just how I'm seeing it, someone please explain it to me if thats wrong. Also, if anyone has the answer to that question, please post.
Approximately how many degrees of rotation does a 1/2" dia bolt see with every 1 ft/lb of torque applied to it??
Reason I ask this is because of the pics ben posted. If its a small degree of rotation for every ft/lb applied, then that measurement of how far the bolt is rotated with and without an extension could be wrong.
Say 1 ft/lb is equal to 1* of rotation. If that bolt looks like it has rotated back to the same location but is actually off by 5 or 6*, that would not be visible to the naked eye and yet your torque yield with and without the extensions could still differ by up to 5 or 6 ft/lbs.
However, if one ft/lb of torque is equal to 5* of rotation, that would be visible to the naked eye if you were off by 10* and yet your torque yield would still be off by only 2 ft/lbs..... not critical in my book, but what do I know
This is just how I'm seeing it, someone please explain it to me if thats wrong. Also, if anyone has the answer to that question, please post.
There isnt a problem with that, it was stated that a person with a sheet of papers knows more than a person without one, my point was thats not true all of the time.
GMC_2002_Dmax
The Still Master
no pat you are wrong.
I know what you are talking about in the torque wrench instructions; and they are not being clear. What they [people who write the torque wrench instructions] mean by extension is an ADAPTER; an adapter is different than an [straight] extension like we are talking about. An ADAPTER (like a crows foot thing) will change the torque reading. An extension (like we think of an extension as) WONT.
I dont know why we are still arguing. This is driving me insane; like the people who couldnt get it thru their heads that if you put an airplane on a reverse-moving conveyer belt, the damn thing will still be able to take off.The people who have posted in this thread who are REAL engineers (wolford, etc) all agree with me.
and when I say REAL engineer, I mean someone who actually has a piece of paper that says "so and so graduated from so and so university with a 4 year degree in mech engineering". NOT someone who is an armchair engineer/engineer by trade/someone who has read some books/someone who knows someone who knows someone who is an engineer, and other 'fake' engineers.
ben
The plane still won't fly based on the incorrect original question, I proved that 3 or 4 years ago............................
I have had the opportunity in my life to work with both mechanical and electrical engineers for eight years in a high speed manufacturing environment...........
..........I RAN THE MACHINES THEY COULD NOT DESIGN CORRECTLY !!!!In the end operations would make suggestions to the engineers flawed paper designs and make them workable solutions in the real world.
We called in Yankee Ingenuity and common sense.
That piece of paper didn't mean SHIT !!!! They couldn't design a round room with one door and find their way out of it with a MAP for the most part, they might have had a degree but lacked common sense.
Wes there are so many variables in that question. Thread pitch, bolt material, friction, etc... You cant really answer the "how much does an X" dia. bolt turn when 1 ft lbs of torque is applied to it" question...
With that in mind, it's theoretically possible for the answer that everyones been arguing about to be right on both sides. In a perfect world, the scenario thats being discussed would leave you with a torque yield thats exactly the same every time with or without an extension placed on a torque wrench.
However, it's not. Whether you're talking about a crank/balancer bolt or a valve cover bolt, you're gonna have a bolt that rotates a different X number of degrees than another based on what written in red.
To truly prove that bolt is rotating back to the same spot everytime, extension or not, you're going to have to find the amount of force needed to move the bolt one degree and some form of measurment (angle meter) that will prove the bolt is at exactly the same position. That $40,000 torque wrench $79,000 torque angle meter are almost needed to prove that bolt has landed in the same place everytime.
Then you can say an extension does or doesn't have an effect on a torque wrenches calibration.
I'm not inclined to believe a test based solely on what my eyeballs tell me since I've been wrong many times before. Not saying you are Ben, just too many intricacies involved in those measurements.
As long as people are happy with tq numbers being +/- a few percentage points, I'm sure that using an extension of certain size and length is not going to throw off the numbers that far.
Ok I just got done doing this, now what, want me to pick a dandelion and post a picture?
This is a joke. I agree with Ben. Its like saying you shouldn't use a deep well socket to torque a bolt. Torque is torque extension or not. It will take more energy to torque something though the extension because of the added distance not because of an added force. But it will not have any more torque. This is like argueing that putting a pipe on the handle of the torque wrench throughs off the torque reading.:rofl:
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Nope 0 years of experience only minor engineering courses. I do have access to a 3 foot 2 foot 1 foot and about 3 6 inch extension. I will put them all together and torque something and see if there are any differences.
So for your theory, 2 foot pounds per inch, if I want 100 ft pounds, 7.5' x12 = 87.5 inches and multiply that by 2. 175 additional foot pounds of torque. So in order to get 100 foot pounds of torque to the bolt, I will set the wrench to 275 foot pounds. I will have an addition person help hold everything so I can get it perpendicular. :rofl:
I will try it and report back.
So for your theory, 2 foot pounds per inch, if I want 100 ft pounds, 7.5' x12 = 87.5 inches and multiply that by 2. 175 additional foot pounds of torque. So in order to get 100 foot pounds of torque to the bolt, I will set the wrench to 275 foot pounds. I will have an addition person help hold everything so I can get it perpendicular. :rofl:
I will try it and report back.
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I just though it was funny that you guys have spent 8 pages of discussion about the proper use of a torque wrench and one of the "top trans builders" doesn't even use one.
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