This is why plowing with IFS sucks

[Snowbound98]

I love the ride quality of the IFS but as far as a work horse, not so much. I'm not planning on putting a straight axle under this just yet so I had to replace some broken parts for now. After looking at it, upper ball joint and outer tie rod- passenger side, lower ball joint, outer tie rod-drivers side and both hub bearings had a little play, I said to hell with it all. I'm replacing everything on the front end.

I started by cleaning all the parts and then sandblasting them. I painted everything with POR15 so the parts don't rust up again.

I love this POR15. I use it on everything. So I decided to go ahead and paint the frame as well. First I pressure washed it all then went over it with a wire brush and knocked off all the loose crap, then washed it again and used compressed air to blow it all off. I ran out of daylight so it's not perfect but I'll get it better with my second coat.

Got everything in from rockauto.com except my CV shafts. Should be here on Tuesday. When I ordered the ball joints I went ahead and got "the problem solver" from Moog. Now that I got it I'm wondering if I should have just gone with the reg ones. This is offset to allow adjustment for camber/caster but I think I'm seeing more of that issue on lifted trucks. I'll talk to my alignment guy on Monday and see what he recommends.

I got both inner and outer tie rod ends and also picked up tie rod sleeves just for insurance.

I'm planning on having all this done by the 4th then it's time to start on tearing down engine related parts to install big air kit.

 

[TheBac]

Images dont show. Details on the truck?

 

[durallymax]

Images don't work for me either. Solid axles go through plenty of parts as well, if your truck is over 100k and you've been plowing with it, its due for front end parts. I didn't notice a pitman arm or idler arm in your list, were they okay?

You may want to look into bracing the frame behind the upper control arm if you have a heavy plow, they like to crack there. Google it, its very common and a simple fix, the 3500HDs come with the gusset already there.

 

[arneson]

:roflmao:roflmao: u can't be serious. Just as vinney said, straight axles are not the answer to everything. I have a few f550s and have put just as many parts in that truck as my ifs trucks. Been plowin for over 20+yrs and also have some blizzards 8611 power wings, which are over 1000lbs. Heaviest on market for a pickup. Zero issues. So not sure what you are talking about work horse wise.

 

[Snowbound98]

Straight axles have way less moving parts than IFS. Measure ur drop when lifting ur plow and compare that to leaf springs. Even when u use timbrens, it's no where near how a solid axle can hold up. I too have been plowing since 94 and have used IFS and straight axles. From my experience, and all the $$$$ I spent on replacing IFS shit, there's no comparison. And I just picked up this truck. Didn't come with the plow but I see the signs of the plow being used. There's a piece of the mounting bracket in the frame where the tow hooks used to be. And I found the corrosion clips on the wiring for turn signals and marker lights. Also they just broke off the ground terminals for the isolator module instead of unbolting them. My tailgate was rusted to hell so they also used a salt spreader. I had to replace the tailgate and I'm gonna POR15 the entire underbody. I know how to deal with this rust, living in the salt belt as I do. But I found the best way to deal with IFS if anyone wants to plow or off road these things.

Cut all this crap off.

And straight axle that bitch!

Cost me about $1500 to put a straight axle under my 97. I just spent $1100 on ball joints, tie rods, tie rod sleeves, hub bearings, CV shafts, idler arm, and pitman arm. Oh ya and another $250 on the cognito centerlink brace kit. But I love the way it rides compared to straight axle. I don't plan on plowing with this truck either.

 

[07bluelbz]

What transfer case are you going to run? Cool truck btw. Centurion conversions are kinda rare around here.

 

[Snowbound98]

Got a twin stick NP205 for it. As you noticed I went with a chevy dana60 not a furd axle. I didn't want to use the chain drive case for this build. But I might be throwing in a set of Rockwell axles. Don't think I'm gonna drive this one on the street anymore.

Also did a slip yoke eliminator kit.

 

[Snowbound98]

Ya these centurions are pretty rare. But I think I know why. They cut the frame and lengthen them but the frame section they use is a piece of crap. It starting to split on the bottom rail of the c-channel. Gotta cut it out and replace it with a section I cut off another frame. This project has been ongoing for 2 years now. I'm slapping in a bbc and a th400. Other than that the truck is solid. I bought it in 99 and took really good care of it. Other than plowing with it. But I washed it after every day of plowing.

 

[07bluelbz]

Cool. I used to want a k2500 short bed like yours. I wanted to straight axle it put a Cummins in it.

 

[gassux]

I concur, i was contemplating a 8.5 Western Pro Plus w/ wings but I'm tired of workin on the front end. I'd rather be at the beach or drinkin during the summer/spring

 

[durallymax]

I concur, i was contemplating a 8.5 Western Pro Plus w/ wings but I'm tired of workin on the front end. I'd rather be at the beach or drinkin during the summer/spring

That is the easiest way to deal with snow, fly south.

 

[Snowbound98]

Just an update; I posted the pics if my 05' suspension in the wrong place. Put it with my PCV reroute. Oops!! Anyway, talked to my alignment guy about the problem solver upper balljoints. He said no prob. So I went ahead and installed everything.

When I ordered my CV shafts Rockauto had an upgraded shaft called an hd. It's part number 661325hd. It has better boots on the CV. They only had one in stock and it was the same price as the standard one. So I got one of each.
After everything was installed the truck drove pretty straight, so I guess I did a pretty good job of measuring my tie rods. Took the truck in 2 days later for the alignment and the guy tells me my CV shaft is throwing grease everywhere. I was pissed! And of course it's the hd shaft not the standard one. Called Rockauto and they did get more shafts in but with mail order parts I had to order another one and they will reimburse me when I send in defective one. But of course, I bought the first one for $46 and the new one is $96. But they said they will reimburse me the $96 plus shipping both ways. Got it in this weekend. Wasn't bad cuz I just took away bar end link off and was able to slip it in there. The problem with the first one was that the band clamp that holds the boot on came loose and it threw all the grease out. What a mess to clean up.

 

[Big Block 88]

Yeah IFS sucks... I guess that would be why the best desert rigs in world run IFS and even IRS, humvees uparmored 1000's of pounds beyond the engineered and intended weight hold up pretty decent. ( we did have breakage issues for the most part it was due to our own stupidity). SFA on our fords had more issues than any of our IFS gm trucks. Death wobble, lock outs breaking, and shit ride.

Honestly with good tie rod sleeves or heavy duty units, some bracing you should have no issues. There are excellent extreme duty half shafts out there as well.

Killer Centerion btw. I have always wanted one of the CCSB half ton GM's, and the 4 door Broncos

 

[malibu795]

personally driven several variations of these.. 6x6 AWD full independent suspension... FWIW jsut about everything oskkosh makes has independent suspension
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium_Tactical_Vehicle_Replacement

 

[blk smoke lb7]

Nice work Jim

 

[Snowbound98]

IFS definitely has its place. Desert racing is one place where IFS shines. But that's not stock by no means. I'm talking about taking a factory rig and trying to make it plow or trail worthy. Straight axle rigs are a lot more dependable. Tie rods on IFS are weak, CV shafts are weak, and torsion bars are weak, aluminum center sections are weak and not supported by aftermarket, a-arms are puny in comparison to humvee. The hummer was built with ground clearance in mind. They use planetaries at all four corners and u won't find weak inferior parts there. You take a factory IFS and install a lift. It costs twice as much and abuses every part on it. Drop the center section, drop the torsion bar mounts, and install oversized tires and your guaranteed to go thru hub bearings, tie rods, and ball joints. Now take a solid axle truck and the lift kits are less expensive, easier to install and don't wear crap out like the IFS. If you four link and coil over a straight axle you can get just as good of a ride as IFS. And you can prob do that for the same as a lift kit for an IFS.
As for all the problems you had with the fords. Well that's kinda self explanatory. Ford found the problem and circled it. I just hate how GM dropped the ball with the front suspension on a work truck. 2500HD and 3500 should be equipped with solid axles in my option. Again, this is my option and experiences dealing with both solid axles and IFS. Take it for what you may, but plows are extremely too heavy for IFS. And any kind of off roading you'd be hard pressed to break a leaf sprung Dana 60.

 

[OregonDMAX]

ive broken parts on my fully built kingpin D60 in my 3000lb jeep more times then i can count on two hands, nothing is bulletproof.

straight axle parts wear out just like IFS parts there just aren't as many. and i prefer the ride quality of IFS and would rather keep replacing parts then go solid axle on a daily driver.

 

[Snowbound98]

Oh ya. I'm not getting away from suspension in my 05. Rides great compared to solid axle. But go pick up a copy of peterson's 4wheel and off road. See how many people are wheeling IFS. Only the people who are collecting parts to straight axle it. If you bought all the tough parts to have a capable IFS wheeler, you could replace everything stock once a year for 10 years. There are too many moving parts to wear out on IFS. That's not arguable. A-arm bushings, idler arm, ball joints, torsion bars, CV shafts, tiny tie rods(inner and outer), hub bearings, center link, and pitman arm. Compared to just ball joints or king pins, tie rods, pitman arm, u-joints, and springs. On the straight axle the bearings are supported by the spindle. The weight of the rig is on the spindle which is supported by the ball joints or king pins. That's all held by leaf springs. On IFS, the weight is supported by hub bearings, barely supported by spindles supported by a-arm bushings and held up by torsion bars.
If IFS is capable then ur jeep wouldn't have a Dana 60. Do you ever hear anyone say I'm tired of my straight axle, I'm gonna IFS this thing? Not unless they have an endless budget and are using custom made parts supported by CAD and an engineering degree.
Shit breaks. No doubt. But you really have to abuse a straight axle to break it. Bounce an IFS center section off a rock and then tell me it's just as capable as a solid axle. I have dragged many axles over obstacles and say damn, now I have to paint that again.

 

[Snowbound98]

Street wise- I'll take my IFS. I'll use my 2500 to pull my straight axled 97 or my 89 Jimmy to the trail. Ride is great. I won't argue that one bit.

 

[Snowbound98]

Sorry guys, I don't mean to come off as an opinionated, arrogant *****. I'm really not. When I have experience or knowledge about something I stand my ground but listen to others opinions and experiences. My 97 K1500 centurion conversion had 383 stroker, 4L60E, 6" lift with 3" body lift, 14 bolt semi floater, 5.13 gears, rolling on 36" tires on 16" wheels. I daily drove the hell out of that rig and also plowed with it in winter. EVERY YEAR I had to replace the complete front end. Timken hub bearings were the best cuz they have a 3 year warranty so that wasn't that bad. And I had lifetime warranty on tie rods and ball joints. But the tear down was every spring. I got to the point to where I knew exactly what tools to grab, and could replace everything in no time. Without any trips back and forth to toolbox. Even after a weekend wheeling trip I had to realign the front end. Tie rods would flex so bad. But I wheeled it for a long time. Just have to know ur limitations. If I put a front wheel against a rock I wanted to go up, I knew better than to "goose" it up. Something would break every time. With the solid axle I can "stuff" the wheel against a rock and smash the skinny pedal. I've broken drive shafts doing so. With chromoly axle shafts and Yukon u-joints I felt comfortable driving it like I stole it. One thing I could do with my IFS (this is what makes hummers so cool), I could straddle obstacles. The high ground clearance of the center section is nice as long as you don't smack it on anything. That stupid stepper motor on the diff is retarded. Nothing better than driving up a hill and lose traction, push the button, and wait and pray it engages.

Long story short, it's a nice change of pace to have conversations, even heated discussions with a bunch of fellow gear heads. I don't have many buddies that do what I do with trucks. Most conversations I get is with the girlfriend wanting to know what color carpet looks better or if the curtain rods match the decor in the living room. Like I even care. If its up to me we would go with POR15 for paint on walls and diamond plate kitchen cabinets.

I think I can offer good advise and help to guys that do what we do. I was a heavy equipment diesel mechanic for 12 years and 3 ASE certificates away from being master certified.(That a/c test is a killer)My dad is master certified as was my grandpa so that was what I wanted to be since a young boy. My grandpa went on to teach auto shop and my dad has been doing that for the past 10 years now. I got out of it and now work as a maintenance mechanic at a chemical company. I just don't want to give off the wrong impression that I'm a know it all and I'm never wrong. I've been wrong before, granite it was when I thought I was wrong. Hahahaha.