On Guy's website the price for Crowers vs. Carrillo's is identical, both are 2700$
LBZ: Rods So many choices
- Thread starter aggar
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On Guy's website the price for Crowers vs. Carrillo's is identical, both are 2700$
The prices of rods and pistons is ridiculous in my opinion. I would like to know what the mark-up is on a single rod because when compared to the gasser performance rod pricing, it's gotta be tremendous. It's like comparing marine and auto parts. The same part at a boat shop is 3 times that at an auto parts store.
Not taking a shot at Guy or the other engine builders/vendors as it's not their fault, but damn!! When will us guys catch a break on this stuff?
Not taking a shot at Guy or the other engine builders/vendors as it's not their fault, but damn!! When will us guys catch a break on this stuff?
Last time I checked Jobber price on Crower is around 2,100 but there is a long wait til there there running the Duramax batchs.
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What is a jobber Crower Henry? Where does one get these jobbers? Never heard of them.......
As Trent said then you have to have your money out in these rods that are laying around waiting for someone to buy them so you can get your money back out of them I feel for Guy and those guys.
The prices of rods and pistons is ridiculous in my opinion. I would like to know what the mark-up is on a single rod because when compared to the gasser performance rod pricing, it's gotta be tremendous. It's like comparing marine and auto parts. The same part at a boat shop is 3 times that at an auto parts store.
Not taking a shot at Guy or the other engine builders/vendors as it's not their fault, but damn!! When will us guys catch a break on this stuff?
I agree Dale... prices are stupid, it sucks man. A kid and his dad can build a SBC or BBC in their garage for a very reasonable price. Manufacturers have made it near impossible for this to be a fun family project now IMHO.
My company builds rods, pistons and cranks in Germany and the retail on our Rods for other markets is only $ 210.00 per rod and that includes ARP L19 premium bolts. It really makes me want to start making rods for these machines..time will tell..:secret:
I can see the pricing being a bit more as I am sure the forging is larger than one we use for a motorcycle or sport compact car however I can't see them being more than $250.00 each bushed, honed and ready to go.
Seems like some companies perhaps due to their size have so much overhead that it is necessary to sell them at the higher prices and also I am sure they are a little more as the overall market demand is less. What are the differences between an LB7, LLY, LBZ etc if any?
BTW: The rod pictured in my avatar is one we make for a road race motorcycle, all the other rods are H-Beams.
J
I can see the pricing being a bit more as I am sure the forging is larger than one we use for a motorcycle or sport compact car however I can't see them being more than $250.00 each bushed, honed and ready to go.
Seems like some companies perhaps due to their size have so much overhead that it is necessary to sell them at the higher prices and also I am sure they are a little more as the overall market demand is less. What are the differences between an LB7, LLY, LBZ etc if any?
BTW: The rod pictured in my avatar is one we make for a road race motorcycle, all the other rods are H-Beams.
J
That 250 bushed price brings you to about the same as the jobber price for crowers . Plus the expense of testing .................... I wish there were a set of rods in the 1500 dollar range that could hold what the crowers and others hold . IMOP it is a lack of volume that drives cost up on most of our parts , gettin 50 of anything built compared to 1000 will greatly change the "per " / "each" cost .
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all years rods fit phisically on any dmax crank and piston combos. the lbz/lmm rods are a little heavier and stronger than the lly/lb7 ones, but the physical dimensions are the same
As far as the $1,500.00 dollar rod price is concerned with we could supply them from Taiwan however we are focused on supplying a premium component that we are in complete control of from start to finish. We have our own forging facility as well.
You are correct about the unit cost however in most manufacturing facilities they have been redesigned to what we call "small cell technology" as the economy changed we had (all manufacturing companies) to learn to be a bit leaner with costs related from concept to completion of the component.
The main thing for us would be that since our company makes 90% of sport compact, foreign car and Japanese bike pistons/rods that the forging would be new and would also require more material to start from so that is where the added cost is per part on a new project like the Duramax rods/pistons.
As far as the testing situation we too use F.E.A testing software and when properly used with 95% + correct data imported then the results are often correctly figured out before a single chip is cut, we then can also project the weight in SolidWorks before we machine anything.
The physical testing for fitment and strength can usually be figured out in 1-2 sets of rods.
If we pursue this then I will offer it to the companies here that advertise and if non of them are interested then perhaps at that point I would sell them myself once I am established as an advertiser here an or on other similar Diesel forums.
Crower, Howards, Carrillo and others make great rods however if you could buy a part for less money or the same money and have a stronger part or less money and a stronger part we all would benefit. Not to mention when one particular supplier starts to see their sales diminish due to competition in the marketplace then they will either produce a better part or will lower the pricing if they are priced too high in the market.
Competition can be a great thing.
John
Well said , as far as the 1500 $ , beings how there has not been any failures of the currents offerings price would have to be your angle , the if you could keep it to the 210-230 $ range or close , and they were equally as strong , you would sell alot of them . I look forward to what you do in the future !
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Thanks for the information, I should have some OEM samples here in the next few days and I hope to see what is the Center to Center, big end and small end diameters are.
Thanks again.
John
Well I received my first sample a bit ago in the mail and found that the stock rod with bolts weighs in at a hefty 1,160.4 grams or a bit over 2.5 pounds! so I understand why some manufacturers charge a bit more for the aftermarket rods as there is a lot of material as well as a much smaller market than a BBC or SBC engine.
Can anyone here tell me the safe HP limit on a stock rod is? I feel it is more than I think and one of the benefits of the stock rods strength on the Big End is the cracked cap design as it will not allow the rod move around, the bad side is that they cannot be re sized either.
John
Can anyone here tell me the safe HP limit on a stock rod is? I feel it is more than I think and one of the benefits of the stock rods strength on the Big End is the cracked cap design as it will not allow the rod move around, the bad side is that they cannot be re sized either.
John
Guess you dont need my sample anymore. Good luck with your findings!
Some have had issues at 500hp with a rod (very few), and some have lasted MULTIPLE trips to the strip, or in some cases several seasons at 700hp.
I would say stock rods (especially the 'stronger' LBZ/LMM) are good to about 600hp.
Some have had issues at 500hp with a rod (very few), and some have lasted MULTIPLE trips to the strip, or in some cases several seasons at 700hp.
I would say stock rods (especially the 'stronger' LBZ/LMM) are good to about 600hp.
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Actually I want to see aftermarket rods along with the various OEM rods to have the engineer look at them and see what he thinks would need to be done for when we make aftermarket rods.
Always good to look at all available parts and data prior to machining anything since we have to work within the factory size and dimensions.
Thanks,
J
Always good to look at all available parts and data prior to machining anything since we have to work within the factory size and dimensions.
Thanks,
J
It's more a torque limit on the rods than a HP limit, IMO.
About 1250 ftlb is about as much as you want to play with.
Long ago, in a land far away, there was a fantasy about running 750+ HP on stock rods if you could keep the torque down. Someday I hope to visit that land in my travels, but for now the ship sailed without me. I've heard some people made it to that distant shore, but were soon eaten by a cannibal tribe called the Moorpowas ...
About 1250 ftlb is about as much as you want to play with.
Long ago, in a land far away, there was a fantasy about running 750+ HP on stock rods if you could keep the torque down. Someday I hope to visit that land in my travels, but for now the ship sailed without me. I've heard some people made it to that distant shore, but were soon eaten by a cannibal tribe called the Moorpowas ...