N2O nozzle pre or post IC?

[Diesel power]

Sorry to enter in late with reletive input/questions...

Don't we have to be purdy damn hot to ignite the pistons? How far over the edge are we talking? Unreasonable amounts i think.

For example... egts at say 1600*, DP 3 times boost, shooting 100 pill at it?

Coatings aside, standard issue forged piston whats it gonna take, roughly, to take the top off?

Its gotta be a crazy number or nobody would be spraying, it would be at the limits not on average trucks.

Cast pistons, or those with silicon in them(also known as "forged") are junk! and will erode the crown of the piston at temps of 1600* and up.

While a True forged piston with no silicon in it will handle the same conditions up to 2000* before any damage is seen With no coating!

Coating of a good design will inhibit crown defamation even further along with less heat soak and less expansion.

You know what melts pistons? Too much timing, Bad piston material, and high EGT's

 

[Diesel power]

As far as I know, I'm the only one who has publically came out documenting the phenomena. Yes, it has happened to other trucks privately, but nobody knows how many.

Back when we were running under 40lb boost, there was no problem. It started happening with big chargers.

You will notice that many of the big HP 12v guys aren't spraying, even when the rules permit. Trust me, they aren't doing that cause winning isn't important to them.

High Timing, High boost, and nitrous all add lots of cylinder psi/heat........Thats were the issue begines........But one maybe two has to go in order for things to work reliably

sled puller are not, correct, but the dyno and track guys are!!!

 

[McRat]

...
sled puller are not, correct, but the dyno and track guys are!!!

Some are, some aren't, and the class rules allow it. There is no trophy $ for running fuel only. They are now making a new class for them.

 

[Diesel power]

Some are, some aren't, and the class rules allow it. There is no trophy $ for running fuel only. They are now making a new class for them.

Yea i know, there a bunch of whiners.......and a fuel only class is the only way for them to get recognition......cause they suck in a run what you brung class......

 

[McRat]

Yea i know, there a bunch of whiners.......and a fuel only class is the only way for them to get recognition......cause they suck in a run what you brung class......

While you can't get a good answer from them, I really suspect they have seen the nitrous problem with the big twin/high boost setups, so can't run it even if they want. If they did have problems, you'd never read about it on the internet.

 

[MAXLLY]

I'm not sure i would compare a 12V against these stellar 4 valve heads we get to use. The dodge boys have to push a ton of boost/heat to get what we do for far less. Thereby contributing to the piston demise.

 

[McRat]

If I were building a high-boost + Nitrous engine, I'd drop the compression down just in case.

 

[MAXLLY]

Cast pistons, or those with silicon in them(also known as "forged") are junk! and will erode the crown of the piston at temps of 1600* and up.

While a True forged piston with no silicon in it will handle the same conditions up to 2000* before any damage is seen With no coating!

Coating of a good design will inhibit crown defamation even further along with less heat soak and less expansion.

You know what melts pistons? Too much timing, Bad piston material, and high EGT's

This makes sense to me. Timing/pressure building as the piston is moving up versus at the last second and later, bad piston... cast we've known this since we started hosing gassers. EGT's well... you already have a ton of heat and you wanna add more?

I have forged pistons... purdy sure they have some silicone in them to keep the noise down. Fortunatley we don't run a ton of timing as well I spent alot of time helping the exhaust side of the motor.

1600* thats not very hot, are you saying 1600 and spray is likely to melt or sprying to 1600*? Of course there is some variable here, every motor is a different gig.

 

[MAXLLY]

If I were building a high-boost + Nitrous engine, I'd drop the compression down just in case.

Agreed.

 

[Diesel power]

[/B]

This makes sense to me. Timing/pressure building as the piston is moving up versus at the last second and later, bad piston... cast we've known this since we started hosing gassers. EGT's well... you already have a ton of heat and you wanna add more?

I have forged pistons... purdy sure they have some silicone in them to keep the noise down. Fortunatley we don't run a ton of timing as well I spent alot of time helping the exhaust side of the motor.

1600* thats not very hot, are you saying 1600 and spray is likely to melt or sprying to 1600*? Of course there is some variable here, every motor is a different gig.

Thats a tough one, 1600 is not hot but it seems to be where most of the d-max guys are seeing melting issues. realisticly 1600 is 1600 no matter if it's from nos or fuel alone.

my theory is that nitrous makes a engine more reliable because it will allow for a much cooler intake injection which will reduce expansion rate some and will delay the onset of heat soak in the piston, also the better combustion produces more power with less bi products(soot..) again lessining the chance of super heating the combustion chamber, like high boost and a over fueled condition would do

 

[WolfLMM]

Fuel doesn't try to react with Al though. That the difference between 1600* fuel only and 1600 with spray.

 

[MAXLLY]

Thats a tough one, 1600 is not hot but it seems to be where most of the d-max guys are seeing melting issues. realisticly 1600 is 1600 no matter if it's from nos or fuel alone.

my theory is that nitrous makes a engine more reliable because it will allow for a much cooler intake injection which will reduce expansion rate some and will delay the onset of heat soak in the piston, also the better combustion produces more power with less bi products(soot..) again lessining the chance of super heating the combustion chamber, like high boost and a over fueled condition would do

makes sense, like common sense. I see the twin guy side to, get the charger in the sweet spot and its just as good without the added cost of N2O. As well its always on the pipe.

I did everything i knew of to cool the top end in my build (oil press- volume/squirters/rad/oil cooling/H2O-IC/IC pipe/pistons/jet location. I'll know in the coming weeks if it was wasted effort or not. Other than a wastegate (forthcoming) and coated pistons i don't think we/I can do anymore.

We'll find a way to build and tune a motor for nitrous, learned how for gas just need to adapt a little.

May i ask how much/many stages you spray? What did you do differently build wise? Perhaps i should email you?

Thanks

 

[blue68383]

Im going to put it post intercooler in the cast intake.
Thanks
Nate

 

[MAXLLY]

Good luck Blue.

If you have the thing apart drill holes pre and post IC and you can move the jet around whereever you want. Moving the nozzle is cake, creating the hole is time consuming if you don;t need it/want it just put a plug in it. Distance also plays a part in how hard the N2O "hits".

LAter.

 

[Killerbee]

I would like to use it pre-C and pre-intake. But pre-C only if pre-C temp is above 50F, or thereabouts.

You all help me here. I don't own a nitrous bottle. When you spray, about how much time elapses before complete evaporation? Sorry for the newb response.

 

[Diesel power]

I would like to use it pre-C and pre-intake. But pre-C only if pre-C temp is above 50F, or thereabouts.

You all help me here. I don't own a nitrous bottle. When you spray, about how much time elapses before complete evaporation? Sorry for the newb response.

With proper bottle pressure (1050PSI) @ atmosphereic PSI (14.7) it will evaportate between 4 and 5 feet, in a boosted sealed area it may take much longer of a distance..

 

[super diesel]

I would like to use it pre-C and pre-intake. But pre-C only if pre-C temp is above 50F, or thereabouts.

You all help me here. I don't own a nitrous bottle. When you spray, about how much time elapses before complete evaporation? Sorry for the newb response.

It depends on if the line was purged right before the run, how long the line is from the solonoid to the nozzle and the intake track distance. As I found out back in eary 04, the response is much quicker with a perged bottle line and a short -4AN line to the nozzle (about 12" and it was a -4AN line with a -4AN fitting on one end and a -3AN fitting for the nozzle on the other). However, I sprayed at the motor intake track (post I/C), in which also got the charge in way faster. Heres a old dyno gragh from back then.

 

[Diesel power]

Here are two systems i helped develope back in 06-07' that would help most any nitrous user.

www.nanonitrous.com

http://www.gotsqueeze.com/

 

[McRat]

Last I knew of, nitrous "evaporates" at the exit nozzle. It isn't a liquid at all unless under high pressures, or very low temperatures. The "cloud" you see is the water in the air condensing. If pressure falls below ~850psi at room temp, it becomes a gas.

 

[super diesel]

I haven't made my kits sinse 05 (to many folks wanting a new engine after not using it in moderation like I warned them). I'm sure there are a few trucks still running around with them today. I had to send them with disclamers. I don't like that end of the business.