N2O nozzle pre or post IC?
- Thread starter blue68383
- Start date
super diesel
<<<< Under Pressure
super diesel
<<<< Under Pressure
Nitrous oxide can be used as an oxidizer in a rocket motor. This has the advantages over other oxidizers that it is non-toxic and, due to its stability at room temperature, easy to store and relatively safe to carry on a flight. As a secondary benefit it can be readily decomposed to form breathing air. Its high density and low storage pressure enable it to be highly competitive with stored high-pressure gas systems.
In a 1914 patent, American rocket pioneer Robert Goddard suggested nitrous oxide and gasoline as possible propellants for a liquid-fueled rocket. Nitrous oxide has been the oxidizer of choice in several hybrid rocket designs (using solid fuel with a liquid or gaseous oxidizer). The combination of nitrous oxide with hydroxyl-terminated polybutadiene fuel has been used by SpaceShipOne and others. It is also notably used in amateur and high power rocketry with various plastics as the fuel. An episode of MythBusters featured a hybrid rocket built using a paraffin/powdered carbon mixture as its solid fuel and nitrous oxide as its oxidizer.
Nitrous oxide can also be used in a monopropellant rocket. In the presence of a heated catalyst, N2O will decompose exothermically into nitrogen and oxygen, at a temperature of approximately 1300 °C. Because of the large heat release the catalytic action rapidly becomes secondary as thermal autodecomposition becomes dominant. In a vacuum thruster, this can provide a monopropellant specific impulse (Isp) of as much as 180s. While noticeably less than the Isp available from hydrazine thrusters (monopropellant or bipropellant with nitrogen tetroxide), the decreased toxicity makes nitrous oxide an option worth investigating. Because of its release of very high temperature oxygen as a monopropellant the addition of even small amounts of a fuel such as hydrogen rapidly increases the specific impulse and the high oxygen temperatures simplify ignition of the fuel. Isp greater than 340 seconds can be readily achieved. Its low freezing point also eases thermal management as compared to hydrazine -- a valuable property on a spacecraft which may contain quantities of cryogenic propellant.
In vehicle racing, nitrous oxide (often referred to as just "nitrous" in this context to differ from the acronym NOS which is the brand Nitrous Oxide Systems) allows the engine to burn more fuel and air, resulting in a more powerful combustion. The gas itself is not flammable, but it delivers more oxygen than atmospheric air by breaking down at elevated temperatures.
Nitrous oxide is stored as a compressed liquid; the evaporation and expansion of liquid nitrous oxide in the intake manifold causes a large drop in intake charge temperature, resulting in a denser charge, further allowing more air/fuel mixture to enter the cylinder. Nitrous oxide is sometimes injected into (or prior to) the intake manifold, whereas other systems directly inject right before the cylinder (direct port injection) to increase power.
The technique was used during World War II by Luftwaffe aircraft with the GM 1 system to boost the power output of aircraft engines. Originally meant to provide the Luftwaffe standard aircraft with superior high-altitude performance, technological considerations limited its use to extremely high altitudes. Accordingly, it was only used by specialized planes like high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft, high-speed bombers and high-altitude interceptors.
One of the major problems of using nitrous oxide in a reciprocating engine is that it can produce enough power to damage or destroy the engine. Very large power increases are possible, and if the mechanical structure of the engine is not properly reinforced, the engine may be severely damaged or destroyed during this kind of operation. It is very important with nitrous oxide augmentation of internal combustion engines to maintain proper operating temperatures and fuel levels to prevent preignition, or detonation (sometimes referred to as knocking or pinging). Most problems that are associated with nitrous do not come from mechanical failure due to the power increases. Since nitrous allows a much denser charge into the cylinder it dramatically increases cylinder pressures. The increased pressure results in heat, and heat will cause many problems from melting the piston, cylinder head or valves, to predetonation.
The two engines have a direct relationship to our turbo charged diesels, hope this helps to clarify a few things, i'll post the composition of the elements later.
In a 1914 patent, American rocket pioneer Robert Goddard suggested nitrous oxide and gasoline as possible propellants for a liquid-fueled rocket. Nitrous oxide has been the oxidizer of choice in several hybrid rocket designs (using solid fuel with a liquid or gaseous oxidizer). The combination of nitrous oxide with hydroxyl-terminated polybutadiene fuel has been used by SpaceShipOne and others. It is also notably used in amateur and high power rocketry with various plastics as the fuel. An episode of MythBusters featured a hybrid rocket built using a paraffin/powdered carbon mixture as its solid fuel and nitrous oxide as its oxidizer.
Nitrous oxide can also be used in a monopropellant rocket. In the presence of a heated catalyst, N2O will decompose exothermically into nitrogen and oxygen, at a temperature of approximately 1300 °C. Because of the large heat release the catalytic action rapidly becomes secondary as thermal autodecomposition becomes dominant. In a vacuum thruster, this can provide a monopropellant specific impulse (Isp) of as much as 180s. While noticeably less than the Isp available from hydrazine thrusters (monopropellant or bipropellant with nitrogen tetroxide), the decreased toxicity makes nitrous oxide an option worth investigating. Because of its release of very high temperature oxygen as a monopropellant the addition of even small amounts of a fuel such as hydrogen rapidly increases the specific impulse and the high oxygen temperatures simplify ignition of the fuel. Isp greater than 340 seconds can be readily achieved. Its low freezing point also eases thermal management as compared to hydrazine -- a valuable property on a spacecraft which may contain quantities of cryogenic propellant.
In vehicle racing, nitrous oxide (often referred to as just "nitrous" in this context to differ from the acronym NOS which is the brand Nitrous Oxide Systems) allows the engine to burn more fuel and air, resulting in a more powerful combustion. The gas itself is not flammable, but it delivers more oxygen than atmospheric air by breaking down at elevated temperatures.
Nitrous oxide is stored as a compressed liquid; the evaporation and expansion of liquid nitrous oxide in the intake manifold causes a large drop in intake charge temperature, resulting in a denser charge, further allowing more air/fuel mixture to enter the cylinder. Nitrous oxide is sometimes injected into (or prior to) the intake manifold, whereas other systems directly inject right before the cylinder (direct port injection) to increase power.
The technique was used during World War II by Luftwaffe aircraft with the GM 1 system to boost the power output of aircraft engines. Originally meant to provide the Luftwaffe standard aircraft with superior high-altitude performance, technological considerations limited its use to extremely high altitudes. Accordingly, it was only used by specialized planes like high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft, high-speed bombers and high-altitude interceptors.
One of the major problems of using nitrous oxide in a reciprocating engine is that it can produce enough power to damage or destroy the engine. Very large power increases are possible, and if the mechanical structure of the engine is not properly reinforced, the engine may be severely damaged or destroyed during this kind of operation. It is very important with nitrous oxide augmentation of internal combustion engines to maintain proper operating temperatures and fuel levels to prevent preignition, or detonation (sometimes referred to as knocking or pinging). Most problems that are associated with nitrous do not come from mechanical failure due to the power increases. Since nitrous allows a much denser charge into the cylinder it dramatically increases cylinder pressures. The increased pressure results in heat, and heat will cause many problems from melting the piston, cylinder head or valves, to predetonation.
The two engines have a direct relationship to our turbo charged diesels, hope this helps to clarify a few things, i'll post the composition of the elements later.
At room temperature (20°C) the saturated vapour pressure is 58.5 bar, rising up to 72.45 bar at 36.4°C — the critical temperature. The pressure curve is thus unusually sensitive to temperature. Liquid nitrous oxide acts as a good solvent for many organic compounds; liquid mixtures may form shock sensitive explosives.
As with many strong oxidisers, contamination of parts with fuels have been implicated in rocketry accidents, where small quantities of nitrous / fuel mixtures explode due to 'water hammer' like effects (sometimes called 'dieseling' — heating due to adiabatic compression of gases can reach decomposition temperatures). Some common building materials such as stainless steel and aluminum can act as fuels with strong oxidisers such as nitrous oxide, as can contaminants, which can ignite due to adiabatic compression.
There have also been accidents where nitrous oxide decomposition in plumbing has led to the explosion of large tanks.
But most of these incidents are not really related to diesel engines, but the pressure at which the nitrous is at is of greatest importance.
As with many strong oxidisers, contamination of parts with fuels have been implicated in rocketry accidents, where small quantities of nitrous / fuel mixtures explode due to 'water hammer' like effects (sometimes called 'dieseling' — heating due to adiabatic compression of gases can reach decomposition temperatures). Some common building materials such as stainless steel and aluminum can act as fuels with strong oxidisers such as nitrous oxide, as can contaminants, which can ignite due to adiabatic compression.
There have also been accidents where nitrous oxide decomposition in plumbing has led to the explosion of large tanks.
But most of these incidents are not really related to diesel engines, but the pressure at which the nitrous is at is of greatest importance.
super diesel
<<<< Under Pressure
Was this in front of the MAF Jess? I tried that and got no better returns on the power output myself. Maybe my set up. All I know is I could spray enough to distroy stuff real quick either post or pre I/C. However I had to spray more pre I/C. Where are all the test babies at???
DP. Did you get that from Wikipedia? Interesting. It decomposes to nitrogen and oxegen at 1300 C* (2372 F*)
.
DP. Did you get that from Wikipedia? Interesting. It decomposes to nitrogen and oxegen at 1300 C* (2372 F*)
.
super diesel
<<<< Under Pressure
Doesn't this fall in the 1300 C* area? I mean during decomposition? Still, could it be the reason for the acid like effect on the piston tops with the huge doses some use of the N2O (glad I wan't one of them )? I knew the temps were WAY up there (my digital gauge only goes to 1100 C* or 2000 F*), so I don't know how high it was (scared to look actually). Could it be eating them because of this?
)? I knew the temps were WAY up there (my digital gauge only goes to 1100 C* or 2000 F*), so I don't know how high it was (scared to look actually). Could it be eating them because of this?
Last edited:
Adiabatic changes in temperature occur due to changes in pressure of a gas while not adding or subtracting any heat.
Adiabatic heating occurs when the pressure of a gas is increased from work done on it by its surroundings, ie a piston. Diesel engines rely on adiabatic heating during their compression stroke to elevate the temperature sufficiently to ignite the fuel. Similarly, jet engines rely upon adiabatic heating to create the correct compression of the air to enable fuel to be injected and ignition to then occur.
In short, Forged pistons that are coated will survive much longer at a much higher temp, when compared to the cast uncoated designs that many have allready made souvenirs with.
Adiabatic heating occurs when the pressure of a gas is increased from work done on it by its surroundings, ie a piston. Diesel engines rely on adiabatic heating during their compression stroke to elevate the temperature sufficiently to ignite the fuel. Similarly, jet engines rely upon adiabatic heating to create the correct compression of the air to enable fuel to be injected and ignition to then occur.
In short, Forged pistons that are coated will survive much longer at a much higher temp, when compared to the cast uncoated designs that many have allready made souvenirs with.
super diesel
<<<< Under Pressure
There a few in here :cool2:
http://www.duramaxdiesels.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7906&highlight=melted+piston
Sorry to enter in late with reletive input/questions...
Don't we have to be purdy damn hot to ignite the pistons? How far over the edge are we talking? Unreasonable amounts i think.
For example... egts at say 1600*, DP 3 times boost, shooting 100 pill at it?
Coatings aside, standard issue forged piston whats it gonna take, roughly, to take the top off?
Its gotta be a crazy number or nobody would be spraying, it would be at the limits not on average trucks.
Don't we have to be purdy damn hot to ignite the pistons? How far over the edge are we talking? Unreasonable amounts i think.
For example... egts at say 1600*, DP 3 times boost, shooting 100 pill at it?
Coatings aside, standard issue forged piston whats it gonna take, roughly, to take the top off?
Its gotta be a crazy number or nobody would be spraying, it would be at the limits not on average trucks.
My homemade system was pre-turbo in the Air Tube about 8-10 inches before the intake elbow. Never had any trouble that way. It was a small shot though little.045 jet.
Sorry to enter in late with reletive input/questions...
Don't we have to be purdy damn hot to ignite the pistons? How far over the edge are we talking? Unreasonable amounts i think.
For example... egts at say 1600*, DP 3 times boost, shooting 100 pill at it?
Coatings aside, standard issue forged piston whats it gonna take, roughly, to take the top off?
Its gotta be a crazy number or nobody would be spraying, it would be at the limits not on average trucks.
As far as I know, I'm the only one who has publically came out documenting the phenomena. Yes, it has happened to other trucks privately, but nobody knows how many.
Back when we were running under 40lb boost, there was no problem. It started happening with big chargers.
You will notice that many of the big HP 12v guys aren't spraying, even when the rules permit. Trust me, they aren't doing that cause winning isn't important to them.