Manifolds, Up Pipes what brand?
- Thread starter KidwickedLMM
- Start date
I think this statement might be a little bit of a reach.
Tell me Dan, will your up pipes and mine fit each others manifolds? In other words, are yours SO much like mine that the up pipes will interchange? Didn't you guys copy my up pipes directly so you could save some money even when you were selling my manifolds? Some day on a neutral site I'd like to talk about all this.
O, and by the way...ATS had a set of their manifolds on display before I made mine and I never made any attempt to ( TEST ) theirs. As with most reputable manufactures, I tried to make mine totally different and STILL be better.
On a side note, how do I sign up to be a vendor over here? Pat will you have me? I know I've done some things you didn't like in the past although I had good reasons. I think my company has proved above and beyond that we are reputable and trustworthy.
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Hmmm interesting, not to keep beating a dead horse, but i was told not once, but twice, i was pretty much $hit out of luck on 2 pedestals that cracked, one of them was on for just a little over a year, and the other was on for around 8 months, but had less than 1k miles on it. I mustve talked to the wrong person, even though im 99.9% sure it was you both times. The welds clearly had no penetration, my buddies pedestal that was purchased at the same time did the same thing, but his was on less than a year. Luckily i know a great welder, who fixed all of them, better than how they arrived out of the box. I know for a fact one of them is still going today, a few years later. I know shit happens here and there, but that was a very common problem, hopefully you guys have improved on that. If you have problems with pedestals coming apart, i can only imagine how the up pipes will do. Best quality componets??
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I think this statement might be a little bit of a reach.
How is it a reach?
Tell me Dan, will your up pipes and mine fit each others manifolds? In other words, are yours SO much like mine that the up pipes will interchange? Didn't you guys copy my up pipes directly so you could save some money even when you were selling my manifolds? Some day on a neutral site I'd like to talk about all this.
Yes our up pipes will work on the old style manifold and the new style. We already had the fixtures made. That was part of our agreement with you (before we started doing ANY business with you, which you approved). Don’t make it look like we stole your design.
If you want me to go into more details I can.....
O, and by the way...ATS had a set of their manifolds on display before I made mine and I never made any attempt to ( TEST ) theirs. As with most reputable manufactures, I tried to make mine totally different and STILL be better. How did/do you know yours are better unless you TEST them? Just by looks or.....
Well guess what... We did the testing and your design was lacking (not by much). You would have seen this had you tested them. so a better design came to market (materials , Flow, wall thickness, Layout).
As far as the looks of them... there is only a few way to make them look (ATS style/Yours/GM's). If you look at our design side by side with yours you will see there is a good bit that is different (internally and externally).
On a side note, how do I sign up to be a vendor over here? Pat will you have me? I know I've done some things you didn't like in the past although I had good reasons. I think my company has proved above and beyond that we are reputable and trustworthy.
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Hmmm interesting, not to keep beating a dead horse, but i was told not once, but twice, i was pretty much $hit out of luck on 2 pedestals that cracked, one of them was on for just a little over a year, and the other was on for around 8 months, but had less than 1k miles on it. I mustve talked to the wrong person, even though im 99.9% sure it was you both times. The welds clearly had no penetration, my buddies pedestal that was purchased at the same time did the same thing, but his was on less than a year. Luckily i know a great welder, who fixed all of them, better than how they arrived out of the box. I know for a fact one of them is still going today, a few years later. I know shit happens here and there, but that was a very common problem, hopefully you guys have improved on that. If you have problems with pedestals coming apart, i can only imagine how the up pipes will do. Best quality componets??
Hmmmm. I dont reacall you sending anything into me for warranty. Had you of done so and there was no modifactions to them they would of been taken care of (in warranty or not). So did you ever send them in? or was it just a phone call that was made?
It's a reach because you don't have anything better quality then mine and I only gave you permission to copy my up pipes for my manifolds.
You should have redesigned your up pipes to fit your manifolds not continued to use my design without my permission.
You keep bragging about how much better your new design is so lets meet somewhere neutral and have a dyno test. Kennedy's comes to mind. We'll see whose makes more power.
You should have redesigned your up pipes to fit your manifolds not continued to use my design without my permission.
You keep bragging about how much better your new design is so lets meet somewhere neutral and have a dyno test. Kennedy's comes to mind. We'll see whose makes more power.
It's a reach because you don't have anything better quality then mine and I only gave you permission to copy my up pipes for my manifolds.
I have to disagree on this......
Ok I spoke to one of my engineers and one of Garrett’s. Our manifold design was not a copy of your design or LIMITED by your design. They were designed with from scratch to maximize flow using Garrett's proprietary fluid dynamic software.
The only thing that is the same as yours is the flange location for the up pipes. The reason we left that the same is so customers that would like to switch from the old style manifold (yours) can upgrade to the newest design and don’t have to buy new up pipes (the most expensive parts for us). The up pipe design has not changed (other than small tweaks to the Jig, along time ago, for better fitment) from the original sets we shipped out. We still use Aircraft grade bellows (better). We still use 1 pcs design on the up pipe tubes (better). We use a Hi-silica moly iron (Better).
I can get into the benefits of these "Better Quality Parts" if everyone wants.
You should have redesigned your up pipes to fit your manifolds not continued to use my design without my permission.
Again the reason we left this the same is so customers that would like to switch from the old style manifold (yours) can upgrade to the newest design and NOT have to buy new up pipes (the most expensive part to make).
You keep bragging about how much better your new design is so lets meet somewhere neutral and have a dyno test. Kennedy's comes to mind. We'll see whose makes more power.
We have already done the testing, So has Garrett. We know the results :thumb:
Some results/technical data/graphs from either side would settle this a lot quicker than talking back and forth. Numbers talk.
07dirty
2.5 mafia 1k hp.
We still use aircraft grade bellows, and they were made to my specs for this application.
We also make our up pipes one piece now that we can bend them in house.
We however use a nodular iron casting. One of the strongest castings out there and we have never had a single manifold failure. You might be able to say that too, but you don't have the time behind you to have it mean anything.
My offer still stands. We can call it " put up shut up 2. " :roflmao: I'll bring a set of the ProFlows for testing too.
I've been running a lot of PPE parts over the last 7 years. I've watched many of them being made.
It's fun to read threads where "experts" post that PPE is just a relabeler, and that they don't make any of their parts.
It comes up again and again by parts whores who think if they repeat it enough it will become true.
It wasn't true 7 years ago, and it's not true today.
I run PPE riser pipes and manifolds among other things. I've yet to have any significant problems with their performance or quality.
To the RelabelRepeaters: "Where was YOUR boyfriend 7 years ago when everything needed to be invented from scratch instead of just copied?"
If your "Favorite Shop" does not have a dyno, then don't believe any of their BS horsepower claims. They are simply brochure numbers. PPE has been dyno'g Dmaxes since folk were first starting to hotrod them.
It's fun to read threads where "experts" post that PPE is just a relabeler, and that they don't make any of their parts.
It comes up again and again by parts whores who think if they repeat it enough it will become true.
It wasn't true 7 years ago, and it's not true today.
I run PPE riser pipes and manifolds among other things. I've yet to have any significant problems with their performance or quality.
To the RelabelRepeaters: "Where was YOUR boyfriend 7 years ago when everything needed to be invented from scratch instead of just copied?"
If your "Favorite Shop" does not have a dyno, then don't believe any of their BS horsepower claims. They are simply brochure numbers. PPE has been dyno'g Dmaxes since folk were first starting to hotrod them.
I don't have a dyno, but I have spent a lot of time on several. I also never made any " HP Claims ".
I have issued a challenge and defended false claims. Kind of like the industry first egr riser PPE claim. The only thing PPE has going over me is their marketing funds, but hopefully people will overlook that.
Pat are those my manifolds or theirs? Last I saw they were mine. I hope you continue to like them.
I have issued a challenge and defended false claims. Kind of like the industry first egr riser PPE claim. The only thing PPE has going over me is their marketing funds, but hopefully people will overlook that.
Pat are those my manifolds or theirs? Last I saw they were mine. I hope you continue to like them.
I'm not here to sell product. I am not a vendor here. Hopefully the staff will see fit to make me a vendor soon.
Till then you can contact Socal Diesel, MikeL, Todd Greene, Creatures of the Night Performance, Fleece Performance, All Season Diesel, or Extreme Prejudice Racing. They are all vendors of mine and vendors here.
Till then you can contact Socal Diesel, MikeL, Todd Greene, Creatures of the Night Performance, Fleece Performance, All Season Diesel, or Extreme Prejudice Racing. They are all vendors of mine and vendors here.
Well, if you have a racetrack in your backyard with decent timing gear and a pit crew handy, I guess dynos aren't that useful.
For the rest of us with smaller backyards, trial and error on a dyno is a critical first step towards creating horsepower.
If you are SELLING crap, and you say "it makes more HP", unless you have a dyno, you are marketing, not engineering or testing.
My posts aren't a dig at any particular shop; there are several hundred shops today that say they engineer everything from scratch and extensively test all products to achieve the maximum gains, and their shiit is FAR better than everything else.
Instead, my comments are directed at the dillweeds who still post constantly that PPE doesn't actually make race parts. You know it's wrong, and you do it anyhow.