If Max'd out runs stock manifolds, I think most people can too 
I can see the need for up pipes, but not the whole shebang
I can see the need for up pipes, but not the whole shebang
Headers vs Manifolds
- Thread starter MAXX IT OUT
- Start date
This is what happens when someone brings something different to the table. A turbocharger doesn't work off heat grab your blow torch and you'll find out it won't be turning . Heat is needed because fuel and air are expanding gas into the turbine blades and that expansion is from heat. To build a shitty exhaust system with sharp poor radius bends the walls and material take away that heat energy and the gas momentum, that's not all you're dealing with you're also dealing with the other cycles of the engine clashing with each other.
Yes, I so didn't know basic fundamentals .....aren't you going to far to be saying anything about how a gasoline engine can't create the same thermal energy, do you even know the BTU's at max power?
The gas density will vary through out ranges of an air pumps output (omg it does that) but it works the same way flowing through a tube.
Is it me or there is just a bunch of sac riding here ''NOBODY HAS SEEN MORE CUSTOM EXHAUST setups'' than a single person in the world?
Not even top tier race teams like Audi using V12/V6 diesel engines ?
Not Peugeot with their 908 V12 HDI FAP twin turbo? (Diesel)
Not more than companies that dedicate their business to products in the related field like Burns-stainless ?
Yes, such a ''different animal'' get real.
Yes, I so didn't know basic fundamentals .....aren't you going to far to be saying anything about how a gasoline engine can't create the same thermal energy, do you even know the BTU's at max power?
The gas density will vary through out ranges of an air pumps output (omg it does that) but it works the same way flowing through a tube.
Is it me or there is just a bunch of sac riding here ''NOBODY HAS SEEN MORE CUSTOM EXHAUST setups'' than a single person in the world?
Not even top tier race teams like Audi using V12/V6 diesel engines ?
Not Peugeot with their 908 V12 HDI FAP twin turbo? (Diesel)
Not more than companies that dedicate their business to products in the related field like Burns-stainless ?
Yes, such a ''different animal'' get real.
This is what happens when someone brings something different to the table. A turbocharger doesn't work off heat grab your blow torch and you'll find out it won't be turning . Heat is needed because fuel and air are expanding gas into the turbine blades and that expansion is from heat. To build a shitty exhaust system with sharp poor radius bends the walls and material take away that heat energy and the gas momentum, that's not all you're dealing with you're also dealing with the other cycles of the engine clashing with each other.
Yes, I so didn't know basic fundamentals .....aren't you going to far to be saying anything about how a gasoline engine can't create the same thermal energy, do you even know the BTU's at max power?
The gas density will vary through out ranges of an air pumps output (omg it does that) but it works the same way flowing through a tube.
Is it me or there is just a bunch of sac riding here ''NOBODY HAS SEEN MORE CUSTOM EXHAUST setups'' than a single person in the world?
Not even top tier race teams like Audi using V12/V6 diesel engines ?
Not Peugeot with their 908 V12 HDI FAP twin turbo? (Diesel)
Not more than companies that dedicate their business to products in the related field like Burns-stainless ?
Yes, such a ''different animal'' get real.
We aren't here to fight dude. Calm down. It's fairly obvious that the statement "nobody has seen more custom exhaust setups" wasn't meant in a literal sense, I interpreted it as "hey rick must know what he is doing since he builds these for a living"
Those are some fancy Diesel engines. Yes they have headers, but how many rpms do those motors spin. I'm guessing more than 3500.
MSEngineering I think we can all agree a set of equal length headers from whoever made those Peugeot racing pieces would be the Cat's ass, but we're talking duramaxes here and on duramaxes mounted within the space constraints imposed by a truck I'd say Rick has a good deal more experience with a wide variety of different setups than you or me.
Trying to throw out LeMans class racing references in a thread about headers benefiting a low RPM truck is like posting photos of the Space-X program in a thread about home built kit planes. I've seen the diesels run a petit lemans in road Atlanta in person and I've talked at length with some of the engineers. They are some sweet machines and incredibly well engineered, but you're not going to fit an exhaust setup like that under the hood of a dmax, let alone have any of the racing pros design it for you so I'm not even sure why we'd bring that up.
You still tried to swing the emphasis back towards flow running the show... it's a combination of total inertial energy and thermal energy that drives the turbine side. It's called enthalpy. Let's try to use the right terminology so that someday everyone else on the internet will at least know what to google to figure out how to do some turbo sizing math:thumb:
Trying to throw out LeMans class racing references in a thread about headers benefiting a low RPM truck is like posting photos of the Space-X program in a thread about home built kit planes. I've seen the diesels run a petit lemans in road Atlanta in person and I've talked at length with some of the engineers. They are some sweet machines and incredibly well engineered, but you're not going to fit an exhaust setup like that under the hood of a dmax, let alone have any of the racing pros design it for you so I'm not even sure why we'd bring that up.
You still tried to swing the emphasis back towards flow running the show... it's a combination of total inertial energy and thermal energy that drives the turbine side. It's called enthalpy. Let's try to use the right terminology so that someday everyone else on the internet will at least know what to google to figure out how to do some turbo sizing math:thumb:
Headers
I going to try a set and see if there is any difference with my setup. I just want to get everything else done then hopefully I can afford a set from Rick for the dragster. I run a set of ATS now and like them. They seem to work good for me.
I going to try a set and see if there is any difference with my setup. I just want to get everything else done then hopefully I can afford a set from Rick for the dragster. I run a set of ATS now and like them. They seem to work good for me.
Some back to back runs down the track with manifolds vs headers would be the tits :thumb:
The ATS manifolds are very nice I had a set when I was still doing a single the the uppipes were so big I couldn't get the down pipe on the back of the turbo so I sold them.Now that I have twins I wish I still had them.
With all the restriction of the turbo I don't think headers help nearly as much as they do on NA or low drive pressure setups. I want to upgrade my manifolds and up pipes but they do just fine with my setup. Other than the LML drivers side manifold I could not justify the cost to put that in front of other go fast parts.
Now saying that one day I would like to upgrade the hot side exhaust on my truck. Just not right now
Now saying that one day I would like to upgrade the hot side exhaust on my truck. Just not right now
Most of the time it is the end user not being able to correctly set up a before/after test that skews the data. Sometimes it is the engineer not accounting for all the variables. But unless you change one variable at a time in a controlled environment with enough test equipment you are just guessing at what the power gains/losses are from
Believe me I agree with you, theres no rocket science involve in making max torque out of a low rpm diesel in a truck chassis. I'm jus so fed up hearing people bicker about what drives a turbo. It's enthalpy. That's not advanced thermodynamics, it's just a fundamental.
So to get this back on topic, with the variables it takes to make a turbo spool, which would best suit a 500+hp truck the manifold or a log header.
Probably not a giant difference... Honda already pointed out max'd out ran (maybe ported?) stock style manifolds well over 1000hp for a long time.
The horsepower levels we run really aren't that high in the grand scheme of things, and the factory style manifolds really aren't all that restrictive either. A log style header gains you a bit but it's not significant until you hit BIG power, and then at that point you've got a lot of other issues you're probably focused on.
I haven't run any experiments but I suspect a camshaft can have a bigger impact
The horsepower levels we run really aren't that high in the grand scheme of things, and the factory style manifolds really aren't all that restrictive either. A log style header gains you a bit but it's not significant until you hit BIG power, and then at that point you've got a lot of other issues you're probably focused on.
I haven't run any experiments but I suspect a camshaft can have a bigger impact
Probable and actual are 2 different things.
Honda manifolds have runners.
Duramax manifolds are logged and do not have runners.
Run tests and then you will know the truth.
He mean "Honda pointed out" as....
hondarider552 (a member that posted in the thread) made a comment that Idaho robs trucks ran manifolds. Not Honda manifolds
hondarider552 (a member that posted in the thread) made a comment that Idaho robs trucks ran manifolds. Not Honda manifolds
FWIW I still run Kodiak manifolds and up-pipes. I have made over 1100hp and see 84psi of boost with 130psi of drive. Will headers or manifolds help, I'm not sure but these have been working fine.