Fleece 71.5 and 60 over Injector install
- Thread starter JD Dave
- Start date
I will say it's proven.. I prove it's possible to make big power on mulitple trucks with dual fuelers and stock LBZ/LMM pistons..
You prove that with max effort tuning on stock sticks you're going to crack pistons.
Thanks for the help in proving my theory. That's why I push injectors to all my customers.
You prove that with max effort tuning on stock sticks you're going to crack pistons.
Thanks for the help in proving my theory. That's why I push injectors to all my customers.
I know this is going to come back and bite me.. but knock on wood.. I haven't had one customer crack a piston yet.. But I'm not a high profile EFI tuner.
Anyways back on topic. If you want to discuss piston cracking, start a thread about it.
Dave won't have issues because his motor will be fueled correctly
Dave won't have issues because his motor will be fueled correctly
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Stock sticks... High Timing High PW... There's your sign
I have been saying this for years as has freighttrain
I have always suspected this be a partial problem if not the reason
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Ya Sorry, I took that OT.
Good luck with the build, should be a fun one to watch! There places to race up there?
Good luck with the build, should be a fun one to watch! There places to race up there?
I have been saying this for years as has freighttrain
I have always suspected this be a partial problem if not the reason
I've got a 2004 LLY with 140,000 miles on it running 100% over extrude honed injectors, dual pumps, an S475 making 60 psi, all on a stock bottom end and no head studs.. I don't know how the hell it's alive still but he hung 4th gear at our track and spun out on dual STS's
It's an animal. All on a 2000uS shot of fuel... It was second place in the open class...
Sorry that's the last off topic post
Just goes to show how these motors can perform when fueled correctly.
I seen that and Nick posted the same link
ill stay out of this from now and let you guys take care of it
Hows the install going Dave?
Dunno. I ran 10's on fuel with stock sticks with LBZ pistons. Staging with 30 deg timing, then it went up from there. So far, out of 4 trucks, thousands of dragstrip passes, well over 100 dyno hours, sled pulls, etc, no cracked pistons. Yup, I've bent rods at 750HP+, yup I've melted pistons, but no cracked piston failures.
There may be a lot to be said for big injectors, low timing, low PW, but blaming all the piston cracking on it is inaccurate. I know of "at least" one truck that cracked a piston under those parameters. Even stock LLY's with stock tuning have cracked pistons. Unless you think 15 deg and 1500ms is too much timing and duration, something else is going on.
Apperently I dont know what im doing?
2700pw fuel only when neededand cracked a piston on my friends LMM this was with a 52/48 on the timng calculator...Geuss you need injectors to make a truck survive OR your tuning Brayden
Ill stick to my lb7s
BTW Brayden....Way to make a guy feel crappy,Here i thought i tuned my trucks pretty good
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BTW 2000PW on 100 overs is = to 4790sh PW with my calculations there is no doubt you make power with that.
you need to compensate for inj delay obviously but that number is close, NO?
Maybe im just upset that you think i dont know, how to fuel correctly
there is no doubt you make power with that.you need to compensate for inj delay obviously but that number is close, NO?
Maybe im just upset that you think i dont know, how to fuel correctly
Honestly, you figure out how to do it on stock sticks and then you can brag......That what people want! Not you need this this this this this this this this and this to make power You should drive a dodge! You really dissapoint me!
You should drive a dodge! You really dissapoint me!
We have a track a little over an hour from us, hopefully I'll make it there sometime in Sept. I ran a 13.1 @ 101 mph with my PPE in May so we'll see.
Injector's
I tryed the stock stick deal and it didn't work for me! I never cracked any pistons but it wouldn't make any power. I also tryed PW up to 4500! Jeff
I tryed the stock stick deal and it didn't work for me! I never cracked any pistons but it wouldn't make any power. I also tryed PW up to 4500!
Jeff
Apperently I dont know what im doing?
and cracked a piston on my friends LMM this was with a 52/48 on the timng calculator...Geuss you need injectors to make a truck survive OR your tuning Brayden
Ill stick to my lb7s
BTW Brayden....Way to make a guy feel crappy,Here i thought i tuned my trucks pretty good
Wasn't a jab at anyones tuning..
BTW 2000PW on 100 overs is = to 4790sh PW with my calculations
you need to compensate for inj delay obviously but that number is close, NO?
Maybe im just upset that you think i dont know, how to fuel correctly
You can't correllate flow of two injectors into an equivalant duration. Flow doesn't work that way. It's exponential as the hole size increases.
The 100% injectors flow 100% more than stock.
Pulse width is pulse width.. and I'm not saying that anybody is any better than anyone else tuning ( which if you tuned SiK's truck, he probably asked for a max effort tune and you delivered, if not then disregard)
But the bottom line is... The mechanics of an engine won't allow you to make as much power by dragging the pulsewidth out over 70 degrees as it would if you can get your fuel delivered in 40 degrees with less advance. There's less negative torque (ROD SAVER) and less heat from injection ATDC (Piston Crown heat)
Honestly, you figure out how to do it on stock sticks and then you can brag......That what people want! Not you need this this this this this this this this and this to make power
Simon, I don't know what I did to make you mad but here's my theory.
You can't make big power on stock injectors for long and expect the motor to live. There's no magic bullet, no hidden table in EFILive that is going to make more power without going to a bigger nozzle. That's the cold hard truth. Stock nozzles have to be replaced to make big power. I'll keep telling everybody that because it's true. Not because I want to sell them, this this this this this this..
Sorry to disappoint, but it's the truth.
The dodge reference is funny.. Do you know why the P-pump is so desirable? It can deliver massive amounts of fuel... (2-5x) our stock volume in a short duration. The P-Pump doesn't drag the duration out, the injector is incapable of that... it's a poppet style. They raise the poppet pressure to shorten the duration. Some of the bigger 1400hp plus Cummins' and tractor guys run duration as short as 24 deg total duration!
Along comes common rail, and guess what happens? Guys start melting pistons
???? Duration????PS..... You have 40% over nozzles... So why are you arguing?
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Since your into statistical analysis... If you plot the data of the "at least" one truck example above compared to the 20-30 on here and hundreds off the internet that have cracked pistons on canned tuners, being just a math person wouldn't you say there's a trend toward cracked pistons when running stock nozzled engines? The math backs it up.
Simon, I don't know what I did to make you mad but here's my theory.
You can't make big power on stock injectors for long and expect the motor to live. There's no magic bullet, no hidden table in EFILive that is going to make more power without going to a bigger nozzle. That's the cold hard truth. Stock nozzles have to be replaced to make big power. I'll keep telling everybody that because it's true. Not because I want to sell them, this this this this this this..
Sorry to disappoint, but it's the truth.
The dodge reference is funny.. Do you know why the P-pump is so desirable? It can deliver massive amounts of fuel... (2-5x) our stock volume in a short duration. The P-Pump doesn't drag the duration out, the injector is incapable of that... it's a poppet style. They raise the poppet pressure to shorten the duration. Some of the bigger 1400hp plus Cummins' and tractor guys run duration as short as 24 deg total duration!
Along comes common rail, and guess what happens? Guys start melting pistons
PS..... You have 40% over nozzles... So why are you arguing?
I guess you have to define big power. 798rwhp uncorrected on a ~5 second pull. Probably 850-900 when doing it dyno-queen style & corrected.
That engine melted pistons at 2500ms peak duration, but the death was caused by tearing 2 pistons in half at the wristpins, horizontally.