LLY: EFILive DVT's...broken...?

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Cindy, I can appreciate your view on this from a business perspective and I hope you could understand why I might be concerned about this as a consumer. As for whether there is an issue or not, I think we'll have to just agree to disagree. I have seen other threads online alluding to a potential issue (I linked to them in this thread too) so I don't believe it is correct that this and the EFI forum thread are the only places this issue has come to the surface. While EFI may have sold 1000's of these to LLY owners, the logic doesn't follow that it necessarily would have been found quickly. The issue is that you'd have to not only factor in having an injector issue similar to what Ben saw, but you'd also need to factor owning a Tech 2 or oscilloscope (very uncommon/expensive equipment) to verify what was happening and then beyond that you'd need to take the initiative to post it online for someone to find out about it. I think if we did out the math we'd figure out quite quickly why something might not have been discovered sooner.
I agree with you, and that's exactly what we did, further to that we actually sourced an oscilloscope and offered to send it to a tester. Given the cost of such equipment and the skill required to use it as a borrowed item, it was only offered privately (you won't find any posts publicly on this).

At the end of the day short of importing an LLY to Australia to test this feature ourselves or putting a person on a plane with relevant equipment and find a test vehicle at the other end, we did everything we could to get this tested in a reasonable time frame. The truth is, as unpalatable as it is, nobody - beta tester, public consumer or any other interested party stepped up until now.

It took 18 months to get to this point, scheduling this in for review is going to take time.

With all due respect once again I'm not here to be a pain or make your life difficult, but as an someone who both owns this hardware/software and owns an LLY truck, I certainly have a stake in making sure I don't end up costing myself a significant amount of money by replacing perfectly good injectors on my truck. As I mentioned above, should modifications in the software be too complex, I would be perfectly fine with a work around being developed. I would also like to state that even if there is a potential issue in the DVT tool for LLY's, In my view this does not take away from the hard work the folks at EFI have put in to making this the best tuning software available on the market for Duramax trucks so I would extend my thanks to yourself, Ross, Paul and the rest of the the staff who worked to tirelessly to develop the product to where it is today.

Ben and I spent dozens of hours the last couple Weeks tuning my truck and I can honestly say we are thoroughly annoyed with the DVT function and all its glitches. My truck has lb7 electronics and half the time the dvt function wouldnt work without multiple restarts, then it wouldn't deactivate until completely disconnected. This issue and many like it have been reported by regular consumers and professional tuners and beta testers for a long time. Why does efi live choose to spend their time trying to support every vehicle under the sun when there are incredibly inconvenient glitches that need to be fixed in already developed platforms? Efi live mightve been awesome for the first fee years because it was unrivaled, but now for the serious user it seems much less problematic to switch to a standalone ecm and software. Efi live can progress, and we all want to to see it happen, I just wish that you guys shared the same interest in furthering duramax performance.

Thanks,
Tim Judd

Tim, can you please point me to the thread on our forum you created for your issues? or the http://support.efilive.com/index.php support ticket number?

We don't profess to be able to cover each and every thread that is created - we are only human, although we do give it our best shot. The Helpdesk support ticketing system is a far better way for us to manage these things.

Cheers
Cindy
 

THEFERMANATOR

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Ben and I spent dozens of hours the last couple Weeks tuning my truck and I can honestly say we are thoroughly annoyed with the DVT function and all its glitches. My truck has lb7 electronics and half the time the dvt function wouldnt work without multiple restarts, then it wouldn't deactivate until completely disconnected. This issue and many like it have been reported by regular consumers and professional tuners and beta testers for a long time. Why does efi live choose to spend their time trying to support every vehicle under the sun when there are incredibly inconvenient glitches that need to be fixed in already developed platforms? Efi live mightve been awesome for the first fee years because it was unrivaled, but now for the serious user it seems much less problematic to switch to a standalone ecm and software. Efi live can progress, and we all want to to see it happen, I just wish that you guys shared the same interest in furthering duramax performance.

Thanks,
Tim Judd


I know the feeling. I thought it was just mine since it is a transplant with minimal electronics added in. It drives me nuts having to guess wetehr V7 or V8 will flash my ECM, or if it will BBF or not. I get random messages saying my ECm is locked when I know it isn't, and all other kinds of issues. Most of the time it just ends up being a PITA for me though. Just CAL flashed an LMM here a few weeks back with the V2, and it screwed up all of the OBD2 outputs and disabled his EDGE monitor. I've posted about some of my issues in the past, but I always figured most of it was me not knowing teh software that well.
 

wilsonck

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If I have 7.5 installed already, can I install this into a different directory? With all the issues regarding flashing LLY's right now, I don't want to upgrade and screw things up, or has that been all fixed?
 

DAVe3283

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Sep 3, 2009
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If I have 7.5 installed already, can I install this into a different directory? With all the issues regarding flashing LLY's right now, I don't want to upgrade and screw things up, or has that been all fixed?
It looks like, at least in V8, they have fixed it. From the changelog:
Build 198 (May 29, 2012)


  • Fixed flash problems with various VPW based controllers, namely P12 and LLY.
  • Fixed E60 (LLY) full flash recovery. No need to pull battery power to recover a failed full-flash on LLY.
Not sure about the V7 program though.
 

MN04LB7

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Has there been any update to this? I had a truck last week with bad over fueling at idle. When I turned off injector 1 (passenger front) it cleared up. Replaced that injector and it was the same. Replaced injector 2 (driver front) and the problem went away. Just had another LLY with a fuel knock while driving. Turned of injector 8 and it cleared up. Replaced injector 8 and the knock is still there. What injector do I "try" now? 7?
 

mtl_dmax

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Has there been any update to this? I had a truck last week with bad over fueling at idle. When I turned off injector 1 (passenger front) it cleared up. Replaced that injector and it was the same. Replaced injector 2 (driver front) and the problem went away. Just had another LLY with a fuel knock while driving. Turned of injector 8 and it cleared up. Replaced injector 8 and the knock is still there. What injector do I "try" now? 7?


Is your EFI software totally up to date? It should have been fixed a few revisions ago but I haven't had time to verify it works yet.
 

MN04LB7

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Yes. I am using V7.5.7 Build 246 and according to efilive website that is the latest. I know it did not work correctly on this last truck
 

THEFERMANATOR

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could always disconnect each injector one at a time to find the bad one.


This will not work as the FICM fires in batches of 4. If 1 injector in a batch goes out the FICM kills all 4 on that batch. This is why when you lose connection and have to ice pick one, it runs so rough when it happens. 1 injector losing connection cause you to lose 4.
 

duratothemax

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This will not work as the FICM fires in batches of 4. If 1 injector in a batch goes out the FICM kills all 4 on that batch. This is why when you lose connection and have to ice pick one, it runs so rough when it happens. 1 injector losing connection cause you to lose 4.

The FICM does not "fire the injectors in batches of 4". How would that work in the engine if multiple injectors were all firing at the same time...the engine wouldnt even run. ;)

I think what you mean, is that the FET high-side drivers in the FICM have the injectors bussed electrically in groups of 4. So if there is a fault in only one injector circuit, the FICM has no choice but to shut down the offending bus because it cannot completely electrically isolate one injector circuit individually...it has to bring down the remaining 3 with it because they are all driven off the same high-side driver.

The separate low side driver is what triggers the injector. Obviously there are 8 of those....because a diesel needs to fire each injector individually...

Ben
 

THEFERMANATOR

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The FICM does not "fire the injectors in batches of 4". How would that work in the engine if multiple injectors were all firing at the same time...the engine wouldnt even run. ;)

I think what you mean, is that the FET high-side drivers in the FICM have the injectors bussed electrically in groups of 4. So if there is a fault in only one injector circuit, the FICM has no choice but to shut down the offending bus because it cannot completely electrically isolate one injector circuit individually...it has to bring down the remaining 3 with it because they are all driven off the same high-side driver.

The separate low side driver is what triggers the injector. Obviously there are 8 of those....because a diesel needs to fire each injector individually...

Ben

If you want to get technical about it, then yes. I tried putting it in basic terms. I guess I should have said they were in 2 groups of 4 instead of fired.
 

Kappa9012

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Aug 5, 2008
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Cat engines are actually setup like this accept they're grouped in 2's so the high side runs two injectors and we cycle the low side to fire.
 

duratothemax

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Cat engines are actually setup like this accept they're grouped in 2's so the high side runs two injectors and we cycle the low side to fire.

Most DC electro-mechanical devices that are driven by solid state electronics (IE, a computer) are low-side driven.

I think its because solid-state low-side drivers (IE, a FET) are cheaper. Whether theres an electrical advantage to switching something on and off on the low-side versus the high side, I dont know....Fingers would have to answer that.

Ben
 

Chevy1925

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If you want to get technical about it, then yes. I tried putting it in basic terms. I guess I should have said they were in 2 groups of 4 instead of fired.

Don't take this the wrong way ferm but your post did seem like you were saying our injectors are batch fired like older style multi port injected gassers
 
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