Coilovers!!

jmaz268

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May 20, 2010
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untill someone hits coil bind with the 900* springs, dont look at the coilovers as a "lowering device". IMOP they should still be thought of like a torsion bar for adjusting ride height. if you got the arm to crank some preload into that coil, you can set the front end pretty high. IIRC you need 1+ inch of preload into the 900* coil to get stock or slightly above stock ride height but this depends on your front end weight at each corner

x2 but also shock length will help determine height as well.

I know some of us talk about this and I know myself and James are well versed in this stuff as we both have done alot of research.

BUT I don't want people to read this and say piss on it I'm doing it without any research or knowledge on how it works and how changes effect things. Because IMO, there isn't a cookie cutter kit or list of parts that are universal for all trucks. All of em are set up slightly different based on what people want/need and how tall they want the truck.

I may try and find some cheapo none adjustable shocks with coilover capacity in different lengths and play with ride height some.
 

JoshH

Daggum farm truck
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The LCA really isnt my concern, its the sheer/tention stress that is added to those two lower bolts. instead of only controlling the wheels movement, they now hold the whole weight of the vehicle. Again, im thinkin of hillbilly joe that would go out and beat on that setup. thats alot of stress right there that could be easily distributed over the arm better. I have no proof or calculations to back me but my gut and past knowledge is telling me, dont go beating on that.

I was referring to the concern that has been stated about the strength of the DJM LCA. If it holds up the weight of the truck with a torsion bar, I see no reason it wouldn't hold up with a coilover. The mount is another story, but the arm itself should be more than capable of supporting the weight. Like Tim said, you're moving the support further away from the pivot of the arm lowering the stress placed on the arm.

As for coil bind, I measured the amount of compression we have on our race truck at ride height with about 3700 or so lbs on the front axle. I posted it earlier in this thread, but the compression on the shock/spring with the preload backed all the way out is 2.75". I have no idea how much travel you have before you reach coil bind though. With our spring/shock combo, I would think the shock would bottom out before the spring did. I think we are running a slightly shorter shock than most.
 

Chevy1925

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I was referring to the concern that has been stated about the strength of the DJM LCA. If it holds up the weight of the truck with a torsion bar, I see no reason it wouldn't hold up with a coilover. The mount is another story, but the arm itself should be more than capable of supporting the weight. Like Tim said, you're moving the support further away from the pivot of the arm lowering the stress placed on the arm.

As for coil bind, I measured the amount of compression we have on our race truck at ride height with about 3700 or so lbs on the front axle. I posted it earlier in this thread, but the compression on the shock/spring with the preload backed all the way out is 2.75". I have no idea how much travel you have before you reach coil bind though. With our spring/shock combo, I would think the shock would bottom out before the spring did. I think we are running a slightly shorter shock than most.

Yes i understand that if it can hold a torsion bar, it SHOULD hold a coilover but you have forces acting in a different way as well as variables and real world scenarios that dont always follow the math. While a torsion bar is inside a hexigon, it can distribute its load via all 6 points and flat sides down into the tube its self trying to twist that whole tube down. in theory, its stronger as your using the tube and distributing the load through the tube. dunno if that makes sense. Adding a coilover half way down the arm and putting the mounts on top of the tube now puts you in a bending situation where more bracing/structure should be added. if you look at how they built the arm, its structure is there for a torsion bar, no so much a coilover.

im trying to think of an analogy to go with this but cant really think of any. Sucks cause it all makes sense in my head but i have a hard time putting it to text.

Im not against the arm IF DJM built the arm out of some heavy material and didnt cheap out.

For coil bind, josh if you grab the info on the coil from where you bought it, it should give you the fully compressed height numbers. Its called the block height. as long as you shock fully compressed with where the spring is now does not let the coil reach that measurement within the suspension cycle, your good to go. Running the math in my head on those 4" stroke coilovers and 12" long coil, you should be fine. even on a 10" coil.

the problem with a leveled truck is the shock length. the 4" stroke qa1's are too short for that so that means you need to bump the shock length up and if you like to use all your suspension travel, you gotta keep a better eye on it. I know we are talking drag racing here but i like to veiw it from all spectrums.



John, different length coils are not really gunna change anything for ride height, only coil support weight will. you can put a 1000* 10" long spring on a 4" stroke shock and it will still compress just as much as a 1000* 12" long spring on a 4" stroke shock. one will just be higher on the preload adjuster than the other. unless i read that post wrong
anyone wanna buy my traxxas slash so i can invest in putting my coilovers together and bottom a-arm bracket? lol
 

Chevy1925

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just FYI, probably one of the best threads ive read/been in a long time. no drama, no bs, just talking :D :hug:
 

TheBac

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Ive seen lots of guys do that and hold up off road if that helps tom.

Actually, yes it does James. Can you give me an example I can look at, or maybe direct me toward a coilover setup you think would work?

Not sure on the old style, but NBS Tahoe's have coil over setup. Might look into their lower control arm. Don't have any idea if it will help but might give some ideas

Hmmm...no kidding? I will have to do some checking on that.

ON EDIT: Looks like new Tahoes use a "strut" setup, where the spring is attached to the shock like a McPherson strut, and uses the same McPherson-type upper bearing and mount setup. Also looks like the lower mount is the same 2-bolt strap-type that standard 1/2 ton shocks use, but the lower control arm is set up completely different. Interesting....


What about a shock hoop that follows tight to the upper/inner fender well, then run a coil over or just the adjustable shock off the top A-arm, with a plate welded to the top of the arm?

Russ, Im not following you. Remember, Im not really a fab guy. Are you saying to attach a hoop to the lower arm somehow and run a shock above the upper arm?


Thanks for the ideas guys. Yes James....its about time we had a good tech thread. :thumb:
 
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TheBac

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Hell Tom, the newer 1/2 ton 4wd trucks are coil over

Yep..same as the Tahoe. I wonder if the NBS 1/2's used the same general frame/dimensions similar to what the HD's were up to 2010? Im gonna have to stop by my local NAPA and do some parts comparisons. :)
 

RPM Motorsports

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May 13, 2008
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Tom, the shock or coilover does not need to go to the bottom A-arm. It can go on top of the upper A-arm, and to a hoop that follows the inside wheel well and attatches to the frame. There are holes in the frame forward and rear of the A-arm that can be used, then triangulate a support bar from the middle of the hoop, to the stock shock mount on the frame.
 
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MarkBroviak

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I so want to do this to mine as well but don't know if it will be smarter to buy a 1/2ton and swap my drivetrain in to it or make mine lighter. Awesome thread guys keep it up!:thumb:
 

Chevy1925

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Tom, the shock or coilover does not need to go to the bottom A-arm. It can go on top of the upper A-arm, and to a hoop that follows the inside wheel well and attatches to the frame. There are holes in the frame forward and rear of the A-arm that can be used, then triangulate a support bar from the middle of the hoop, to the stock shock mount on the frame.

Not something id recommend. Uca ball joints were never ment to see the weight of the truck, not to mention you now put all that force on your eccentrics and will have alignment issues left amd right.

There is a reason ford left that tech in 60s and 70s lol :D
 

RPM Motorsports

smokinum
May 13, 2008
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Not something id recommend. Uca ball joints were never ment to see the weight of the truck, not to mention you now put all that force on your eccentrics and will have alignment issues left amd right.

There is a reason ford left that tech in 60s and 70s lol :D

Possible, I've never seen one with an issue yet though. Quite a few trucks in the area running that way with big lifts.
 

Ridin'GMC

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May 20, 2010
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I've been looking around through various different applications of coil over shocks. None seem to fit the driving habits I have. It is a DD but when I take it off the road, I don't play easy. The only option I see right now is a long travel kit, but I don't like the idea that it will be on the street 90% of the time and the suspension is not being used to its full potential most of the time until it sees the dirt. I just want to get rid of the torsion setup, it's limiting my suspension travel.
 

Chevy1925

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I just want to get rid of the torsion setup, it's limiting my suspension travel.

Im curious how you feel that is? My truck is pulling 11" right now and removing the uca bumpstop and adding a uniball UCA would net me what ever the stock cv's will max too
 

Ridin'GMC

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Im curious how you feel that is? My truck is pulling 11" right now and removing the uca bumpstop and adding a uniball UCA would net me what ever the stock cv's will max too

When I go over the whoops, it bottoms the crap out and smashes into the bumpstops. By the time the suspension cycles to the upper part, I can feel how hard it clunks from the suspension droop. It's done quite a few low rider hopping over the whoops. Right now it's on Bilsteins 5100's, I've considered the Cognito UCAs and better shocks but I'm uncertain if it will achieve the suspension travel I would like to have. I do jump :D Nothing big though, I've probably done 2 feet and it wasn't pretty.

I'm interested in your suspension setup, maybe it might be what I'm looking for.