So what's the new solution to stopping cranks from breaking the af cams dont seem to be doing a whole lot better? Seen a few people posting up their new broken cranks with a af cam....
Broken Crankshaft Count?
- Thread starter EDP
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Not arguing, but how many have you seen with AF cams so far? All I've seen was Shane's
And Shane's was a used crank if I'm not mistaken.
I have heard through the grape vine about 1 person breaking a new crank with an AF cam, but when I have asked details, they "don't have any info" and cant even give me a name. So, I dont believe it. 170,000 mile lly crank in my motor with an AF cam and I have had zero issues.
I'm curious too. I've heard of two breaks but both had used cranks. And one billet stroker crank break that was caused by running a bunch of gas mixed in the fuel.
And wasn't there one new crank break that was caused by some other catastrophic failure?
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And wasn't there one new crank break that was caused by some other catastrophic failure?
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Not sure on Alt Firing Cam or not...but I believe one of Wehrli's customers broke a brand new LML crank or a brand new LB7 crank.... I could be way off though
I know the guy who broke the crank with an AF cam. Fresh motor, new gm lb7 crank, AF cam and internally balanced with the correct fly wheel and ATI balancer. Was over 1k Rwhp also
Here we go again
AF cams are not going to stop the problem. Now with that said if I was buying a new cam anyways I would buy a AF just because. I would never buy another cam Like I already had just because of the AF. VODOO dust just might be the answer with a splash of Holy Water. lol It sucks but if you triple or quadruple the power of something bad things are going to happen.
The best answer is the crank with a bigger journal with more overlap. That will help.
AF cams are not going to stop the problem. Now with that said if I was buying a new cam anyways I would buy a AF just because. I would never buy another cam Like I already had just because of the AF. VODOO dust just might be the answer with a splash of Holy Water. lol It sucks but if you triple or quadruple the power of something bad things are going to happen.
The best answer is the crank with a bigger journal with more overlap. That will help.
As of 10 minutes ago, there is 16 week wait on the stock journal billet cranks from the manufacture. Seems someone in Indiana bought up all the inventory.
Who has one on the bench I can buy before dinner time?
Who has one on the bench I can buy before dinner time?
I dunno. I still believe based on the data that most of the failures can be attributed to harmonics and extra load on the pulley side from dual / triple cp3.AF cams are not going to stop the problem. Now with that said if I was buying a new cam anyways I would buy a AF just because. I would never buy another cam Like I already had just because of the AF. VODOO dust just might be the answer with a splash of Holy Water. lol It sucks but if you triple or quadruple the power of something bad things are going to happen.
The AF cam has been proven to reduce the harmonics. Kind of a no brainer to me on what to do to reduce and eliminate most of the failures. If there was a way to easily get a bigger front bearing in I believe the problem could be cured for the most part.
The issue may never be fully resolved without a redesign but I think the solutions out there now will help the problem.
As far as AF cam engines with new cranks still breaking-especially those with low mileage/hours, I believe they were destined to fail regardless. The fact that so far on this forum and others there is only one partially confirmed case of this happening in a high hp truck built with a new crank and an AF, I wouldn't worry about it.
Supposedly they're supposed to change something on the next gen. I'm very excited to see what they did to help the issue.
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I'd contact wagler or socal.
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Jeremy has 25 Callies cranks on order right now and typically has several Winberg cranks as well.
Thanks Dave.
Believe he spoke with Jeremy today. Winberg is who gave us that 16 week timeframe. We also hit up Guy for options. I even checked with Crower, best prices, but 10-12 weeks on their made to order 4340CM stock or big journal setup.
Obviously people are buying them up quicker than a 9 axis CNC can cut em.
Believe he spoke with Jeremy today. Winberg is who gave us that 16 week timeframe. We also hit up Guy for options. I even checked with Crower, best prices, but 10-12 weeks on their made to order 4340CM stock or big journal setup.
Obviously people are buying them up quicker than a 9 axis CNC can cut em.
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Cranks
The bearing is not the problem. The journal SIZE the problem. There has been way more than a few broken cranks with a AF cam. Most wont talk about it. Harmonics is a problem that I agree with. A crank will flex under power. Now think about a pulling truck going down the track under power and what that crank is going through as the truck loads and unloads. Same for a drag truck only difference is wheel spin then you shock it when the convertor locks up and every gear change. I really don't think there is a simple answer other than a crank with a bigger journal with a narrow rod. That will in my mind make a difference.
The bearing is not the problem. The journal SIZE the problem. There has been way more than a few broken cranks with a AF cam. Most wont talk about it. Harmonics is a problem that I agree with. A crank will flex under power. Now think about a pulling truck going down the track under power and what that crank is going through as the truck loads and unloads. Same for a drag truck only difference is wheel spin then you shock it when the convertor locks up and every gear change. I really don't think there is a simple answer other than a crank with a bigger journal with a narrow rod. That will in my mind make a difference.
That is exactly what I think the problem is also. I keep a broken lbz crank and looking at it, that is the only way to fix the problem. wider main bearing won't do anything beside the crank is "floating" in oil and not riding on the bearings.
We smashed a set of main bearings to the point they were hanging out of each side of main caps. Was about two minutes of run time from spinning a bearing. Main caps and block were ruined, not visible but ruined. Crank looks good but doubt we'll ever run it again. Had 65-70 runs ranging from 1000fwhp to 1350fwhp. Only the last 11 were with an AF cam.
Edit: was a used lb7 crank when we originally built it, too.
Edit: was a used lb7 crank when we originally built it, too.
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Um what do you think supports the oil it's floating on?
A bigger all around journal would help IMO. Not all cranks break just behind #1 too so it would need to be done to all the mains.
As far as more AF cam engines breaking cranks but people not talking about it, if this is true then it's pretty fn sad.
Only reason not to talk about it is if there was a f'up by the assembler or builder and they won't warranty it if you do. And if their not talking just because they don't want to then they are dumbasses. How else can a solution be created if the details behind the failures aren't shared. Pride be damned. Speak up!!
I have broken a crank with an AF cam.... I think it's mostly sled pullers, who don't talk about anything, lol. They are such a few %... Sled pulling, even though it's in dirt is harder on engines than drag racing will be 99% of the time. I have a friend with a 565 BBC, 14.5:1 comp, nitrous engine, burns Q16, in a 10.5" tire Chevelle. And he has a 485ci pulling truck with iron heads. His dad & him have pulled for over 25 years. It's Oliver Billet rods only, Callies cranks, and titanium valves, best of everything. The loading and unloading and sled hammering, tires bouncing is far harder on engines than people think.
He gets 4 times the passes from his drag racing setup, than pulling engine. Others I know in gas pulling will vouch the same, who have had hot street/strip cars... The case GRP (and other brands) aluminum rods don't last at the power they are rated for when pulling... They have to get the next heavier step or 2 aluminum rods. But most use Oliver Billet Rods period.
New crank or good used that broke?
How much time on the build before it happened?
Cranks
I also agree with the drag racing vs truck pulling on motors. I have done both and pulling is harder on the mojo! lol
I also agree with the drag racing vs truck pulling on motors. I have done both and pulling is harder on the mojo! lol