big three gonna lose the money...

Rhall

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Aug 12, 2006
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Also, if you take the airlines for example, most of the mechanics took big paycuts, the upper managment took nothing, they kept their huge paychecks, and still the airlines are laying off, obviosly a paycut from the lower end isnt helping, someone needs to try switching stuff around, start at the top, where the big money is, and work the way down.

IMO, if the UAW does take big paycuts, this could chain react, more companys will see that they just gave in, and then other union and even non-union companys will start lowering wages, then pretty soon, wages across the country will be driven down, but the cost of living will keep going up. How can wages driven down help the economy?

Its funny how the senetors voted their own raises a few years back, yet they dont wanna give the big 3 the money, last time i checked, the government is in major debt too, so how about the senetors take a big pay cut to help the government out, i bet they wouldnt pass that vote.

Also this is off topic, but everyones coming down so hard on the UAW for high wages, that really seem like fair wages to me, but nobody comes down on walmart, the biggest scab corporation of America, who hardly pays their employees, and the ones here in america that do have insurance, well its a joke, and noone cares that most of their goods are imported from sweat shops in other countrys where they pay their employees like 5 dollars a day. Yet thats where everyone shops, putting the American little guy out of business across the country. Imo this is pure stupidity, and this is where this countrys going in the wrong direction, everyone supporting imports, and huge corporations just to save a few dollars, then everyone wonders why the true american companys cant survive. I guess some of us just have higher standards, and like to support american companys, even if it means paying a little more, and yes i am one of those people who hates walmart if you cant tell, and im also one of those people who looks at my tags on my clothing before i buy them, trying to buy stuff that says "made in the usa".

Rob
 
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bighawg

Proud American Infidel
May 12, 2008
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What a lot of people are missing is the fact that bankruptcy is not always the end of a company. Let them file chapter 11, at that point all of their contracts are basically null and void. Then come back and negotiate with the UAW from a more powerful position. If they turn you down walk away and replace them. With the unemployment rate rising there should be plenty of people to replace them.

http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189

Here's a link to a video that I posted in another thread, it gives a pretty good description of problems that automakers are facing.
 

z79outlaw

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Apr 20, 2007
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They can sell out all the money the banks and there highpaid managment and the rest of there suit and tie workers ask for, but when It comes to hard working blue collar Americans making some of the best products in this country they cant even give them 5% or even 2.5% after all they have done for us? What were the Jap auto makers doing during WWII? What were the Big 3 doing during WWII? This is one area I dont stand with the conservatives on, yes the Union should make consessions to be more competative, I am a union member myself and if came to losing my job or taking a pay cut, I would most likely take a pay cut.

They worked hard to negotiate for there contracts but seriously you the UAW is going to end up with nothing if they dont wise up. And its also stupid for the upper managment to assume the workers are going to do anything that they themselves are not willing to do. Perfect example our company wants us to save 17 million this year and they are cutting back on everything we need to function, I would be willing to do my share if the CEO stepped up and did his share and take a pay cut too. But why should I do more with less just so the company can post a huge profit and he can get a 17 million dollar bonus at the end of the year? Will I get a bonus too for getting the company the 17M they needed to save?
 

racinmike77

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Sep 14, 2008
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In all the known metrics, American cars are once again the finest on the average. When you consider price, mileage, performance, handling, comfort, reliability, we are right up there in all categories, and dominate specific categories.
Sadly public perception doesn't back us up. They honestly believe an Accord or Camry is better than the same segment American car with nothing to back it up.
Our emissions and engine controls are leading the world, yet our government says we are failing at it.
The attempts by the Imports to produce SUV's and Pickups have proven that on a level playing field, we build a better product in the USA.
But since our own Government thinks we as a nation are incompetent at making cars, it kind of trickles down.

Exactly we are a nation controlled by the media, "Chevy has 17 models that get over 30mpg highway twice as many as the next automaker" reguardless of the cars they produce, the media and others against the chevy brand continue to criticize blindly.
 

Rhall

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Aug 12, 2006
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Theres a pretty good debate on this, on fox news now. They just said, that GM employees make .28 cents less an hour than Toyota, its the benefits that are paying so much more out. With are countrys health plan, its hard to compete with the foriegn auto workers. And also not to mention, Toyota doesnt have the retirement paying out now, because how long have they had plants here??? Along with the other foreign automakers?? You cant just cut off peoples retirement at a time like this, the senators are the ones that need to get their heads out of their asses, and give them the money.
 
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z79outlaw

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Apr 20, 2007
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Theres a pretty good debate on this, on fox news now. They just said, that GM employees make .28 cents less an hour than Toyota, its the benefits that are paying so much more out. With are countrys health plan, its hard to compete with the foriegn auto workers. And also not to mention, Toyota doesnt have the retirement paying out now, because how long have they had plants here??? Along with the other foreign automakers?? You cant just cut off peoples retirement at a time like this, the senators and the ones that need to get their heads out of their asses, and give them the money.

Agreed thousands of people worked at gm for 30-40 years and dont have anything to rely on for there retirement other than there pensions. They didnt have 401K back in the day, that was there retirement. How about we go out and say hey the goveremnet is costing to much, which it is. And tell all the retired police officers, firefighters, state and county contstruction and maintenece workers that there pensions are gone and they going to have to go back to work unless they have enough cash stuffed away. Kind of screwed up if you ask me.
 

Rhall

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Aug 12, 2006
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Agreed thousands of people worked at gm for 30-40 years and dont have anything to rely on for there retirement other than there pensions. They didnt have 401K back in the day, that was there retirement. How about we go out and say hey the goveremnet is costing to much, which it is. And tell all the retired police officers, firefighters, state and county contstruction and maintenece workers that there pensions are gone and they going to have to go back to work unless they have enough cash stuffed away. Kind of screwed up if you ask me.

Exactly, then at the same time, tell the current employees of the government, that they have to take pay cuts, and how about the senators? They need pay cuts too. But that wont happen, instead theyre not worried, cause they dont think they'll get impacted cause they all drive mercedes and bmw's, but they are wrong, I thought senators were suppose to be smart?

Its always easy for people to tell other people to swallow their pride and take a pay cut, but when it comes to themselves, they think differently.
 

bigbird

Member
Sep 18, 2006
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I understand having to save the entire US financial system with the 700billion. My question is if you start bailing out individual businesses where does it stop. are they going to bail out every employer that hits hard times? seems extremely hypocritcal to bail out the big three and then say no to every other outstretched hand. Whatever happened to poor running companies going broke and dissapearing? that what happens in a free enterprise culture isn't it.
 

duramaximizer

#1 Abuse Enabler ;)
May 4, 2008
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Why don't the oil companys bail out the automakers. They Just made billions and billions from the automakers.


Why would they want to? When the government would still want to come in and say that we have to have all of the "clean hybrid" BS. That isn't what the oil companies want to invest in.
 

Rhall

Old Skooler
Aug 12, 2006
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I understand having to save the entire US financial system with the 700billion. My question is if you start bailing out individual businesses where does it stop. are they going to bail out every employer that hits hard times? seems extremely hypocritcal to bail out the big three and then say no to every other outstretched hand. Whatever happened to poor running companies going broke and dissapearing? that what happens in a free enterprise culture isn't it.


The big 3 have a HUGE play in the entire US financial system.
 

ColbyColorado04

Eye in the Sky!!!
Sep 14, 2008
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No the US goes and spends how many BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars in other countries. They keep bailing out every other BANK that is having tough times. Spent how much on AIG????? Our Govt officials are MORONS!!!!!!!!!! "How about you take a pay cut Mr. Senator"
 

SmokeShow

Well-known member
Nov 30, 2006
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IF the white color employees of the automakers took a 5% pay cut, the amount saved would be much much less than if 10X more blue collar works took that same 5%. ;) There is more money to be saved with the salaries paid to the blue collar folks than that of the white collar employees. HOWEVER, the rediculous bonuses could go away and their salaries could certainly use a little "re-evaluating" to determine a fair-market value for their respective positions. That still doesn't take away from the fact that it still sucks that the already struggling blue collar employees have to then figure out how to live on less while the cost of living continues to rise.

In general, as a society, we are completely financially ignorant and most of it stems from financial immaturity and selfishness IMO.


I don't know how you fix these problems though.



C-ya
 

WolfLMM

Making Chips
Nov 21, 2006
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Mitch, you are right we have too many crooks in this nation, the media sucks big nuts, I cant stand how they bend the truth to make is "politically correct". We will be a war torn 3rd world country before you know it. Those of you who believe in God and have read the bible know what happens to countries who openly accept gays and remove God from their governing methods.
 
Mar 27, 2008
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Gm needs to tell them what there wage is going to be, if they strike hire people in behind them for the given rate, all the people out of work and these lazy idiots won't take a pay cut to realistic levels.
 

Rhall

Old Skooler
Aug 12, 2006
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Gm needs to tell them what there wage is going to be, if they strike hire people in behind them for the given rate, all the people out of work and these lazy idiots won't take a pay cut to realistic levels.

Its not that simple buddy, lazy idiots? Let me guess you think all union members are lazy idiots, maybe you should take some time to read the rest of the thread. So please tell me in all of your knowledge, whats realistic to you? What do you do for a living? How much do you get paid?

Do you even know what gm workers get paid? I bet you didnt know it is over .20 cents an hour less than Toyota workers. Ignorance is a bliss. Its the retirement that is killing them, not the wages. But you cant just take retirement away from people, its not right. Like someone said earlier in this thread, how about we take policemen, firefighters, and all other government workers retirement away, and lower their wages since the government is struggling? Are you ok with that?
 
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WolfLMM

Making Chips
Nov 21, 2006
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Look, we don't know all the details. The media lies, they are full of it, so if thats where you are getting your figures... I'm not for a bail out for any company, period. But at the same time, I don't want to take money out of someone's pocket (ie union workers), Some of them really need it, and are hard workers who deserve it. If money has to be cut, it should be across the board % cut, maybe working up for the higher paid peeps. I don't know how much GM's CEO makes, but I'm sure its way more than he's worth.