big three gonna lose the money...

[ripmf666]

<DIR>

Support for the Auto Industry is in America’s Best Interest ​

</DIR>

Support for the auto industry allows it to continue its transformation and progress that began well before the current economic crisis. ​

• [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]
  [*]U.S.[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]‐[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]based auto manufacturers, in conjunction with the UAW, have taken [/FONT]major actions to restructure their business to be fully competitive[FONT=Calibri,Calibri].
  [*]Latest [/FONT]UAW agreement (Fall 2007) provides solid basis for cost competitiveness[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]…e are restructuring our companies, reducing costs, improving quality, increasing productivity…ll the tough, necessary actions that will help us emerge as a stronger, more competitive company.
  [*]We've negotiated new agreements with our UAW partners that have rewritten the rules of competition in our business... [/FONT]our cumulative structural cost reduction from 2006[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]‐[/FONT]10 will be approximately $13[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]‐[/FONT]14 billion [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]and have responded in an [/FONT]innovative way to reduce our so[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]‐[/FONT]called "legacy" costs [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]associated with pensions and retiree healthcare. [/FONT]
  [*]Starting in 2010[FONT=Calibri,Calibri], we expect our cash spending on U.S. pensions and retiree healthcare to decline to about $1 billion per year. That's a [/FONT]savings of about $6 billion a year.[FONT=Calibri,Calibri].. which makes us dramatically more competitive...
  [*]GM has been [/FONT]streamlining its U.S. operations[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]. It has [/FONT]reduced its U.S. salaried workforce from 44,000 in 2000 to 32,000 in mid[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]‐[/FONT]2008, [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]and its [/FONT]hourly workforce from 132,000 to 72,000 during the same period. [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]
  [*]In response to the recent economic crisis, GM is further tightening its belt. The company recently [/FONT]took additional actions to reduce salaried employment costs by 20 percent, eliminate raises and discretionary bonus for executive and management employees, [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]and suspend the 401k match for salaried employees.
  [*]We led the Harbor report for manufacturing productivity with more of our plants leading their respective segments than any other. [/FONT]
  [*]
  Support allows continuing product and technology investment necessary for future competitiveness…e’ve also heard the call for more fuel​
  [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]‐[/FONT]efficient passenger cars. ​
  
  [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]
  [*]Recent product launches (like Chevy Malibu) confirm U.S. industry’s [/FONT]commitment to product excellence.
  [*]Major commitment to cars [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]/ crossover (18 of GM’s next 19 launches, 13 of last 15).
  [*]Our [/FONT]new products are winning acclaim[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]: Saturn Aura and Chevrolet Malibu won North America Car of the Year. The Cadillac CTS was Motor Trend Car of the Year. The 2 Mode Hybrid Chevy Tahoe—a full size SUV that seats seven with great towing capability—gets the same highway gas mileage as a Toyota Camry and received Green Car of the Year at the LA Auto Show. [/FONT]
  [*]Quality also now viewed as fully competitive[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]…ith [/FONT]lower warranty costs [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]and with the new Chevy Malibu, Cadillac CTS, Saturn Outlook and Chevy Silverado recognized by both J.D. Power and Consumer Reports.
  [*]At GM, we offer [/FONT]17 models achieving 30 MPG highway or better [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]– twice our nearest competitor. [/FONT]
  [*]
  Support enables growth in U.S. technological capability/leadership in key new propulsion areas and strengthens the nation’s energy security…he U.S. cannot allow its current dependence on foreign petroleum to be replaced with foreign​
  [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]‐[/FONT]sourced and developed technologies. ​
  
  
  [*]The Chevy Volt changes the rules of the game [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]by creating an entirely new propulsion category [/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]‐ [/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Extended Range EV. Range is 40 miles on pure electric and zero emissions…ith [/FONT]most commuters never using a drop of gas. [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]
  [*]A healthy domestic auto industry is [/FONT]key to US R&D preeminence [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]‐ [/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]government support will maintain US leadership in overall R&D spending for years to come
  [*]Without the R&D spending of domestic auto companies, the US would fall behind Europe in overall R&D spending according Booz Allen’s recent report on the "Global Innovation 1000"
  [*]Booz Allen has rated GM at the top[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]‐[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]ranked US company in global R&D spending in 2008 at $8.1 billion – ranked second across all companies globally [/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]
  

[/FONT]The domestic auto industry is driving the investments in advanced biofuels

• • [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]
    [*]Funding for development of cellulosic ethanol and other advanced biofuels rests on the prospect of a large market for high level ethanol blends like E85 in flex fuel vehicles.
    [*]The domestic auto companies have committed to make half of their fleets FFVs or biofuel capable diesels by 2012 – no other automakers have made any similar commitments. [/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]
    
  
  

[/FONT]The domestic auto industry is making the US a center for hybrid technology

• • [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]
    [*]GM has 8 hybrids in the market using technology developed in the U.S. – 20 are planned by 2012.
    [*]Chrysler, Daimler and BMW are partnering with GM to further deploy GM’s domestically developed hybrid technology to the marketplace. [/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]
    
  
  

[/FONT]The domestic auto industry is the only industry capable of standing up a domestic advanced battery industry

• • [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]
    [*]While many recognize the importance energy storage technologies in the 21[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]st [/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]century, only the auto industry had the potential purchasing power to drive the location of advanced battery manufacturing – and only the domestic auto industry can drive that investment in the US. [/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]
    
  
  

[/FONT]The domestic auto industry is the only industry sustaining development of a domestic fuel cell industry.

• • [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]
    [*]Leading nations like Japan and Germany are planning to begin early commercialization of fuel cells around 2015.
    [*]The domestic auto industry is progressing on a similar timeline, but without US automakers, all of the critical fuel cell components will come from abroad.
    [*]GM has spend over a billion and a half dollars to develop fuel cell vehicles, AND a largely domestic supply base for this fledgling industry. [/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]
    
  
  

[/FONT]Domestically developed advanced automotive technology is an important path to US export growth

• • [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]
    [*]GM has exported its domestically developed "Belt[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]‐[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Alternator Hybrid" system to China to power the first Chinese hybrid vehicle [/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]
    
  
  

[/FONT]Collapse of the auto industry would result in a devastating economic and competitive scenario for the nation[FONT=Calibri,Calibri].

• • Risk of "Domino Effect" due to common supply base and overlapping dealer ownership.

• [/FONT]
  [*]
  Support enables the industry to bridge what is arguably one of the country’s most difficult economic periods and to weather a financial storm not of its own making. ​
  [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]
  [*]U.S. credit freeze and essentially [/FONT]closed capital market resulting in a liquidity squeeze, [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]at a time when manufacturers’ [/FONT]cash flow from operations are devastated by plummeting consumer demand. [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]
  [*]However, [/FONT]balance sheets are weakened due to restructuring costs, heavy pension and health care payments, [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]large product and technology investments.
  [*]
  [*]Failure is not an option for the U.S. auto industry, nor for any of the three domestic automakers. [/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]
  [*]o [/FONT]Failure of one automaker would trigger a domino effect on the supply chain and the finance subsidiaries and on other domestic automakers.
  Auto industry is a national asset and a critical economic component that runs straight through Main Street…​
  [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]
  [*]Almost [/FONT]4% of U.S. gross domestic product [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]is auto[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]‐[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]related and represents 10% of U.S. industrial production by value. [/FONT]One out of every 10 U.S. jobs [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]is auto[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]‐[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]related, and auto workers receive [/FONT]$335 billion annually in compensation. [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Specifically, GM, Ford and Chrysler account for roughly 70 percent of U.S. auto production and are estimated to support around [/FONT]five million jobs across all 50 states. [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]
  [*]Over the last two decades, America’s domestic auto industry has [/FONT]invested nearly a quarter of a trillion dollars in the U.S., [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]including $10 billion alone last year. The industry also spends [/FONT]$12 billion annually in R&D [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]in U.S., which is among the top industries such as aerospace, medical equipment and computer/electronic industries. [/FONT]
  [*]Supports maintenance and growth of supply base. [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]The auto industry [/FONT]purchased last year $156 billion in U.S. auto parts [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]supporting jobs in all 50 states and is the largest purchaser of U.S. steel, aluminum, iron, copper, plastics, rubber and electronic and computer chips.
  [*]Enables auto industry to [/FONT]continue to meet extensive obligations[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]…amilies depend on a healthy industry that provides [/FONT]healthcare benefits to two million Americans and supports nearly 800,000 retirees and spouses with pension benefits. Enables thousands of dealers to survive and prosper[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]…hroughout towns in every state in America, [/FONT]over 20,000 automobile dealers [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]provide high paying jobs for over [/FONT]1 million employees. [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]
  [*]Autos account for [/FONT]$690 billion, or about 20% of all U.S. retail sales[FONT=Calibri,Calibri].
  [*]Auto sales generate more than [/FONT]$10 billion dollars of annual tax revenue [FONT=Calibri,Calibri](sales tax, registration fees, payroll taxes) which for many states is among their top sources for revenue.
  [*]Many [/FONT]U.S. financial firms are staked to a healthy auto industry [FONT=Calibri,Calibri]because many have provided credit to manufacturers, hold their bonds and have financed the purchase of their vehicles. Millions of Americans also hold [/FONT]auto stocks and/or bonds that are held in mutual funds, 401(k) plans and pensions.

 

[ripmf666]

UAW Local 435​

Chairman’s Report December 3, 2008

​

Brothers and Sisters,
President Myers and I would have liked to have brought back better news to the membership of UAW Local 435. But, let the truth be told, there is no good news. The following is a summary of information that was received by President Myers and Chairman Riccio at the UAW International Union Council meeting held on Wednesday December 3, 2008 in Detroit Michigan.
This report is informational; in an effort to ensure that everyone has an understanding of the current situation, and what will be talked about by the National Parties should the loans be granted.
If the loans are granted, we will all have decisions to make pertaining to the upcoming talks. We want to ensure that the membership of UAW Local 435 has the most current information so that everyone will be able to make informed decisions when and if the time comes.
If bankruptcy should occur for GM, Ford, and Chrysler, then there obviously will not be a need for talks. Regardless of how this situation evolved, the truth is, if the government allows the automakers to fail, the entire economy, including all of us will be impacted.
The issues, as stated below, are based on GM, Ford, and Chrysler receiving their bridge loans from the government. If the money does not come forth from the government, GM will be out of money by the end of December. Chrysler will fail soon after GM. Ford is in a slightly better situation but at the rate they are burning cash, they will also fail.
An analyst was hired by the UAW International Union to review the current economic situation at GM, Ford, and Chrysler. The analyst, Steve Girsky gave a report to the UAW council that verified for the UAW the economic situation at GM, Ford, and Chrysler. Girsky showed that even though the automakers were not healthy prior to the credit crisis, the credit crisis was definitely the back breaker. Steve Girsky gave his email address for anyone that has questions about his findings. [email protected]

1. VEBA - Delay the 2010 VEBA monetary contribution from the corporations. The payment will be deferred until a later date with interest. The monetary contributions that have been previously made into the VEBA account will remain in the account and untouched.
2. Jobs Bank – Appendix K language (Job Bank) will be revised by the national Parties as per the established guidelines for revision, within Appendix K, Page 213, Section F of the National Agreement. The Vice Presidents of UAW/GM, (Brother Cal Rapson for GM), UAW/Ford, UAW/Chrysler will begin to work out the mechanics/revisions of the language beginning next week. Should not be any revisions until 2009. The International Union stated that whatever revisions that take place will be done over a period of time. The International Union further stated that every effort will be made to minimize any negative effect to the membership. Due to the Language already in the agreement allowing revisions by the National Parties, to the Job Bank language, within the UAW/GM, UAW/Ford, and UAW/Chrysler National agreements such revisions do not need to be ratified.
3. 2007 GM, Ford, Chrysler, Collective Bargaining Agreements - Review the entire 2007 Collective Bargaining agreements for Ford, GM, and Chrysler, for modifications to the agreements. Any contemplated modifications to the agreement other then the Jobs Bank language will be forwarded to the effected UAW memberships for ratification.
4. SUB Pay – The SUB pay will remain in place as long as the fund has money. Currently the fund has enough money to last for at least 24 months.
5. Equity Stake – The International Union stated that whatever we do for the Corporations must have an equity stake for the UAW membership. The International Union also stated that they want a guarantee that when the Corporations return to viability there will be a return of the items that we concede.
6. Attendance – Attendance was discussed and it was stated that some plants within GM, Ford and Chrysler were still having attendance problems. The International Union stated the obvious fact that people needed to report to work.
As more detailed information comes forth, we will make every effort to get it out to everyone as quickly as possible.

 

[ripmf666]

Stop picking on auto workers; their downfall will hurt entire U.S. economy



December 12, 2008

I am sick and tired of all the bashing the auto industry is getting. How can letter writers so harshly oppose the use of tax payers money for a bailout of the auto industries. Calling them arrogant and egotistical. Yes, there have been unwise decisions made. Yes, the CEOs and vice presidents rake in huge yearly salaries plus bonuses. Isn't that the case in every industry?
but, please remember the hourly workers in these industries and the domino effect it will pose should they not get a bailout. It's not the assembly workers' fault.
They go to work every day to earn a living. By far are they egotistical. They are the ones who will worry how to pay for a mortgage or college educations for their children.
They are the ones who, after many years of working these thankless jobs, will worry about their pensions -- will it be enough in their senior years?
They are the ones who have been brought down by the greedy CEOs who can live on the interest alone from their incomes and bonuses. By you who drive foreign cars and by the government for allowing so many foreign car industries into the the U.S.
If the government wants the auto industry to stand on its head for bailout money, do it.
If the government wants to question how they'll use the money, answer them.
Get it right and keep it right.
As the wife of an assembly worker, I have a question, why is the government finding it so hard to give to its own, but is first in line to send help and billions of dollars overseas?
Marina Reineman, Hyde Park

 

[Rhall]

Sorry dude, but check the window sticker of any Honda on the lot. It will tell you where most of the parts came from and any assembly was done. You will find that the majority are US. A simple VIN check will tell you that most vehicles are made HERE. Very few Honda vehicles actually come from Japan. US, Canada, and Mexico are the main Mfg points for the US market.

It seems that the only Mfg.s that can't efficiently operate in the US ARE the big three. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Subaru,etc all have plants operating here, no BK announcements from them...




*I worked with/for Honda as a wrench for many years..

I did say that most have plants here, but sorry dude, i dont believe thier parts all come from here.... cheap labor, thats how honda, toyota, nissan, subaru ect all stay going good.

 

[Rhall]

new info i just read.... this is what was being pushed and i am assuming is what got shot down.....


"Corker has crafted a separate, three-pronged plan:

* It would require the two firms closest to bankruptcy, General Motors and Chrysler, to reduce their debt by two-thirds. Bondholders would have “plenty of incentive to make sure that the debt is reduced by two-thirds” or risk losing even more if the firms go into Chapter 11, where their bonds might be further discounted, Corker said. “We’re going to force them into bankruptcy if they don’t do this,” he said bluntly.
* He also would require that the Voluntary Employee Benefit Association, the entity created by the car firms and the UAW to handle retiree health care benefits, accept stock in lieu of half the cash payments due. The carmakers had agreed to fund VEBA but can no longer afford to do so. “If a company goes bankrupt, these future payments are never going to happen anyway,” he said.
* Finally, Corker’s bill would force the UAW to lower its members’ wages to the level of workers at the American “transplants,” the factories in Tennessee and other states owned by Toyota, Hyundai and other foreign car companies."

This in my opinion is bullshit, so now, since were letting foriegn auto makers come into the states for free, and build cars, we have to lower our wages to make up? I think not, this is where the free trade agreement screwed amercia, in my opinion there factories should have never been allowed to be built here, and when they shipped their cars here should have a tax to pay, causeing them to raise the price of their cars, there for the big 3 would be way more competitive. If gm goes non-union, they WILL outsource more and more work every year. I say make the higher ups take pay cuts first, then see what happens.

Rob

On edit, i said we a lot, im not a member of the UAW, but i am union.

 

[MEANMAX]

interesting !





i don't want gm to close down, much like everyone else. I'd like gm to stop paying out the ass for the benefits of the people that don't even work there anymore. I have to save up for my own retirement why not everyone else... there are a lot of little things that is screwing gm and most of it gets pointed back to the UAW. They were told to take a pay cut and they said no. Based off that reaction they don't need the bailout. I would like to see GM without the UAW and see how much our vehicles cost then.

If we can have a lower cost vehicle then we can sell more. If we can sell more then we can have more jobs all around !

You hit the nail right on the head! This is the REAL PROBLEM but no one wants to address it!
Walt.

 

[Rhall]

Stop picking on auto workers; their downfall will hurt entire U.S. economy



December 12, 2008

I am sick and tired of all the bashing the auto industry is getting. How can letter writers so harshly oppose the use of tax payers money for a bailout of the auto industries. Calling them arrogant and egotistical. Yes, there have been unwise decisions made. Yes, the CEOs and vice presidents rake in huge yearly salaries plus bonuses. Isn't that the case in every industry?
but, please remember the hourly workers in these industries and the domino effect it will pose should they not get a bailout. It's not the assembly workers' fault.
They go to work every day to earn a living. By far are they egotistical. They are the ones who will worry how to pay for a mortgage or college educations for their children.
They are the ones who, after many years of working these thankless jobs, will worry about their pensions -- will it be enough in their senior years?
They are the ones who have been brought down by the greedy CEOs who can live on the interest alone from their incomes and bonuses. By you who drive foreign cars and by the government for allowing so many foreign car industries into the the U.S.
If the government wants the auto industry to stand on its head for bailout money, do it.
If the government wants to question how they'll use the money, answer them.
Get it right and keep it right.
As the wife of an assembly worker, I have a question, why is the government finding it so hard to give to its own, but is first in line to send help and billions of dollars overseas?Marina Reineman, Hyde Park

This hits the nail on the head, how much has the government spent in iraq? How much are the senators that are deciding whether or not they give the bailout money making a year for doing nothing? I bet they wouldnt be willing to take a pay cut to help the government out.

 

[Rhall]

interesting !





i don't want gm to close down, much like everyone else. I'd like gm to stop paying out the ass for the benefits of the people that don't even work there anymore. I have to save up for my own retirement why not everyone else... there are a lot of little things that is screwing gm and most of it gets pointed back to the UAW. They were told to take a pay cut and they said no. Based off that reaction they don't need the bailout. I would like to see GM without the UAW and see how much our vehicles cost then.

If we can have a lower cost vehicle then we can sell more. If we can sell more then we can have more jobs all around !

So there just suppose to stop paying retirement to people that are already retired? That would be a good thing to do . If GM gets rid of the UAW there will NOT be more jobs, they will outsource more and more every year, and will end up less jobs, yes we will have a lower cost vehicle, but we will lose jobs.

 

[ripmf666]

Funny thinng is if this was a oil factory asking they would get big hand outs you know Bush and the others would not want to lose there retirment Oh never mind those guys dont have to worry about medicare or SS is around they have a funded plan they all laid out and voted on for there selfs so I guess thats the goverments form of the union for there selfs.

 

[McRat]

I believe we as a nation should do the "bailout" unconditionally. Much of our taxes are spent on keeping citizens on welfare, can't we spend some keeping them OFF welfare?

Lawmakers and lawyers have made the US auto industry a punching bag for a generation now. I wouldn't be surprised if 1/3rd the cost of a car is to pay for government mandates, legal fees, and taxes. It's probably higher. That's not capitalism, so why should they expect a capitalist company survive in that atmosphere.

It's comical that US gov't now wants to impose even further mandates on US companies, when perhaps that's a large part of the damage done already.

Manufacturing, construction, mining/oil, and farming/forestry are perhaps the only real wealth generators. You take raw resources, add labor, and it becomes worth more. Stock brokers, banks, service sector, all generate "money" but not true wealth, since there is no value added to their labor. We need to defend these industries as a matter of national survival, or we will become the next Britian.

 

[LB7Diesel]

Just saw where there going to use some of the Bank's/Wallstreet 700+billion bailout money to give to the big 3..This makes alot more sence to me. 14 billion out of 700 is a drop in the bucket. Hope it goes through!!

 

[Josh2002cc]

I have mixed emotions about this, i am a union worker, but NOT in the UAW. Im a member of the IUEC. IMO, until some of the upper management took some pay cuts, i dont know if i would agree either. IMO, the problem lies in the free trade agreement, if America would tax some of the foriegn automakers, they would have to raise their prices to be competitive, and yes i do know that some of the foreign automakers have factories here in the states, but i garantee they get most of their parts from over seas, and also the big 3 would keep more of there work here in the US, due to high taxes on shipping it into the country, this would help unemployment, the economy, and all of the big 3 auto makers. Im just a young pup, so dont be too hard on me, i might not know what im talking about.

If we were to assume everything was true in what you say above(which is fine and for sake of conversation I will) don't you think at a time like this it is more important to put some things aside and do what you must to ensure you have food on the table? My point is, we all must eat but we don't have to eat steak every night. So it seems it is either swallow some of your pride, not all of it and keep your job for a lower wage or lose your job and find something else to do which most likely will not even pay close to what the "lowered" wage at the auto plant would pay you after the money was borrowed.

 

[Josh2002cc]

6. Attendance – Attendance was discussed and it was stated that some plants within GM, Ford and Chrysler were still having attendance problems. The International Union stated the obvious fact that people needed to report to work.
As more detailed information comes forth, we will make every effort to get it out to everyone as quickly as possible.

What is this saying, that UAW workers do not like to attend work?

 

[Redbone]

I have mixed emotions about this, i am a union worker, but NOT in the UAW. Im a member of the IUEC. IMO, until some of the upper management took some pay cuts, i dont know if i would agree either. IMO, the problem lies in the free trade agreement, if America would tax some of the foriegn automakers, they would have to raise their prices to be competitive, and yes i do know that some of the foreign automakers have factories here in the states, but i garantee they get most of their parts from over seas, and also the big 3 would keep more of there work here in the US, due to high taxes on shipping it into the country, this would help unemployment, the economy, and all of the big 3 auto makers. Im just a young pup, so dont be too hard on me, i might not know what im talking about.

The problem with this is that the world as we knew it just 20 years ago is drastically different today. The world is much smaller with the advancement of technology. The rest of the world does not depend on US manufacturing capacity as heavily as before. With the industrialization of China and India, there are too many alternatives to Uncle Sam.

Any embargo or heavy taxation on imports would be met with the same action against us overseas. To sustain job creation here in the States, we need to maintain those foreign markets. Conversely, with those same emerging foreign markets, there is adequate demand for product should import duties get too hefty here.

If we're going to play on a world stage, we have to change the way we do business. Isolationism ain't gonna cut it.

 

[nwpadmax]

Couple things have me kinda pissed off.

1) Where the hell will I go to get parts that only come from a dealer...like seals and gaskets and control modules and such? Junkyard? Great.

2) It just absolutely bothers the hell out of me that the next time I go to buy a vehicle, the only option available will be a foreign car. I just don't want one. Drive some gay plasticky foreign gasser pickup....I don't think so.

3) Tired of the bashing... "no one wants to buy their junk." Not everything was junk. I am totally frickin' stoked over my truck, could not be happier with it, have enjoyed it more than any other vehicle I ever owned (and am afraid, will ever own). I also had a Tahoe that I just loved. Do all these people complaining really think that foreign cars are somehow indestructible?

4) This is just gonna make a big damn mess and it seems like everyone is just hell bent to stick it to Detroit. If it really tanks, wait 6 months and see what the new opinion is. Like a moth to a flame.

Rant mode still on.

 

[Redbone]

Couple things have me kinda pissed off.

The whole thing is really aggravating. They did this to themselves and I'm pissed at 'em for that. Since the late 70's through the early 90's, the big three produced a lot of shit. Not everything, but without a doubt material choice, design, and workmanship left a lot to be desired.

Since the 60's, Detroit made a ton of cash. Management didn't give a shit and rolled over to nearly every demand of the UAW. That's how we ended up with $45,000+ pick up trucks. It was a drunken party for 40 years and the consumer got the big weenie.

In the mean time the Japanese quietly snuck in and gave the public the PERCEPTION of higher quality. Slowly over the years they gained market share to the point where they now own the joint. Detroit got caught with their pants down because they stopped caring about the customer.

Incrementally, step by step, GM has turned things around in the quality and styling department over the last 10 years. I believe that the entire line up represents the greatest offering of any manufacturer in the game today.

But ya know what, it doesn't matter. Until management and the UAW change their (figurative) lifestyle, all the public remembers is the party that GM and the UAW had at the public's expense for the last 40 years. I would dare anyone to logically and rationally defend the concept of Job Banks (and a host of other things). Absenteeism, ghost clocking, etc. This is what everyone remembers.

Right now saying "I'm sorry, can I borrow $35B" ain't gonna cut it with the public. They have a huge PR campaign to wage, and it doesn't look good. They just don't get it. It's an insult to the car buying public and taxpayers that the UAW would balk at any further concessions to save their carcass.

With all of that said, I love GM. The outfall of their collapse outweighs the alternative (see Pat's post). I just wish they'd get their heads out of their ass.

 

[McRat]

In all the known metrics, American cars are once again the finest on the average. When you consider price, mileage, performance, handling, comfort, reliability, we are right up there in all categories, and dominate specific categories.

Sadly public perception doesn't back us up. They honestly believe an Accord or Camry is better than the same segment American car with nothing to back it up.

Our emissions and engine controls are leading the world, yet our government says we are failing at it.


The attempts by the Imports to produce SUV's and Pickups have proven that on a level playing field, we build a better product in the USA.

But since our own Government thinks we as a nation are incompetent at making cars, it kind of trickles down.

 

[ripmf666]

What is this saying, that UAW workers do not like to attend work?

Josh they count anyone on sick leave or work comp toward attends.you get around 120 hrs a year for sick days and vaction but if you ask for time off out of it you will play hell getting any of it we have to put in for it upto 6 months before and still get turned down so most take the days they need off it could be for your wedding and they will say nope have to work,

And about pay cuts we have not seen any raises or profit sharing but the higher ups are still getting they perks as everyone want us union members to take the cutand more, don't get me wrong you all say take a pay cut what would you work for in the plant in the summer when its 120 and feels like hell would you do it for 10 to 12 dollars a hr that's what they want to cut are pay to from what I make now is around 28 hr they also with the pay cut want to take health care away while they keep theres, at that rate It would be better being put out you have to think what is my 45 to 50 grand I make a year going to help when the ceo's make in the billons a year even when there loosing money,out of what I made last year they took 14 grand in taxs guess if 3 millon of us loose are jobs the rest of the country can pick up and start pay for are welfare check next so start thinking about how much more yor taxs are going to raise to cover it, I would take a pay cut just not as big as they want I could see up to 5 bucks a hr cut but no more.Think how the mind set is going to be of someone building your truck or car making 10 to 12 dollars a hr you think there going to care at all think there going to be trained at all nope .

 

[duramax-rob]

Why don't the oil companys bail out the automakers. They Just made billions and billions from the automakers.

 

[Rhall]

If we were to assume everything was true in what you say above(which is fine and for sake of conversation I will) don't you think at a time like this it is more important to put some things aside and do what you must to ensure you have food on the table? My point is, we all must eat but we don't have to eat steak every night. So it seems it is either swallow some of your pride, not all of it and keep your job for a lower wage or lose your job and find something else to do which most likely will not even pay close to what the "lowered" wage at the auto plant would pay you after the money was borrowed.

Yes, you should worry more about having food on the table, i just beleive the cuts should start at the top, and work their way down, if the UAW is having steak dinners, then what is the upper managment having? Why is everyone blaming it on UAW all of a sudden, when just 2 weeks ago, the ceo's flew in their seperate private jets, now that they drove a car, they should be off the hook? Start at the top, and work their way down to the middle class.