I jut realized that I didn't check the fuses for the engine harness today :doh: I'm going to check those first thing in the morning.
1967 RS Duramax Camaro
- Thread starter dslhtrdr
- Start date
Ok Rick. I start work at 630, but I have a break at 10, so I'll give you a call first before PPE. Thanks bud
:hug:
Oh no man, I just wanted to y'all to know that I "wasn't trying to be combative" and just had my own experience with a no start/turn over, due to the TCM being unplugged, and I was wondering how you would be able to run without it...
And here is a possible answer:thumb:
This is Something I was wondering about, just don't have the knowledge to make an educated statement, but I was wondering if something was off in the trans sensors that would make the computer think the gears were engaged, causing a no start/no turn over situation, however, he said he could get it to fire on starting fluid
so kinda throws that out the window, or does it?
The LBZ had a manual transmission option, we use those in conversions so there doesn't need a tcm for it to run.
First thing is a tune with the vats turned off and a manual transmission OS.
You can't have too many grounds. Make sure the ecm has a good power source. I'm not sure what PPE does with their harness, I make my own.
Then datalog rail pressure while cranking.
Check to make sure the cam and crank sensors are in the correct place. My el camino had the sensors in the correct position but would still not run without either. I swapped them from another engine and it fired right up. The seemly bad sensors went into another truck and it runs fine.
If you'd like, I can sent you an ECM loaded with a correct tune and a loaner V2 in case you want to use it to data log. Let me know, my email is [email protected]
First thing is a tune with the vats turned off and a manual transmission OS.
You can't have too many grounds. Make sure the ecm has a good power source. I'm not sure what PPE does with their harness, I make my own.
Then datalog rail pressure while cranking.
Check to make sure the cam and crank sensors are in the correct place. My el camino had the sensors in the correct position but would still not run without either. I swapped them from another engine and it fired right up. The seemly bad sensors went into another truck and it runs fine.
If you'd like, I can sent you an ECM loaded with a correct tune and a loaner V2 in case you want to use it to data log. Let me know, my email is [email protected]
Correct Josh, it doesn't stop the engine from running, just the starter from cranking. If the ignition switch is wired direct to the starter solenoid, it'll run without a tcm even with an automatic tranny OS.
Like Rob stated, make sure you don't have LLY cam and crank sensors in an LBZ. I've tried it a few times, and even though they look identicle it won't work.
Rob, thanks for the tips. PPE set up the harness to run with a manual, so I should be fine there. However, I do not believe tue ECM is grounded. The mount I made for it bolts to the plastic bracket on the ECM, then bolts to my inner fender. How would you recommend grounding it?
Also, the cam and crank sensors are in they're original spots, I never removed them. I guess they could be bad, I will look into them.
Thanks for the offer on the loaner ECM and v2, if it comes down to that, I will get ahold of you.
Interesting way I found out I didn't have enough grounds. The car wouldn't run, but one time messing with the wires into the ecm and the ecm laying on the floor board. It was outside at night and the car started and saw a spark off the ecm to the floorboard. I figured out the ecm created it's own ground and worked. Light bulb went on and grounded everything I could and then it worked. I wouldn't recommend grounding the case, just the correct wires.
Good tip, I might have never figured that out.
Yes, PPE set up the harness with a ground wire.
Learned a few things today: the plugs for the cam and crank sensors are identical, and I had them switched around. Fixed that issue. Talked to Dan at PPE and he instructed me the right way to disable the VATS with their programmer, because I was doing it wrong.
I called Rick and he also gave me good advice on his own experiences with the Chevelle.
It still won't fire on it's own. So... Now I'm coming to these conclusions:
Cam and/or crank sensors need to be changed
Re-check the ground for the ecm, possibly all grounds on the whole car again
I need to watch the rail pressure with the shops Solus Pro scanner to see what it's doing while cranking
If you guys have anymore advice, please feel free to chime in.
Check the cam and crank pulse with the scanner, and make sure there is a ground to the block about 6" back from the crank sensor, on the harness. Make sure no paint is in the threads or around the hole.
Last edited:
Ok Russ, I remember seeing it there awhile back, however I don't remember hooking it up, so I will check that tomorrow.
Thanks for the replies and suggestions guys. You're what makes the forums such a valuable resource for the guys like me.
Checked that ground and it was hooked up.
Hooked up our scanner this morning and cranked it over to monitor rail pressure, and it was building up pressure, then the scanner would lose communication for a moment so I had to stop cranking. I need to install a larger cable up to the starter so it doesn't lose so much voltage.
Also, while data scanning I found that neither the cam or crank sensors were giving off any signal. They are both plugged in, so I think this might be the culprit to my problem.
Hooked up our scanner this morning and cranked it over to monitor rail pressure, and it was building up pressure, then the scanner would lose communication for a moment so I had to stop cranking. I need to install a larger cable up to the starter so it doesn't lose so much voltage.
Also, while data scanning I found that neither the cam or crank sensors were giving off any signal. They are both plugged in, so I think this might be the culprit to my problem.
I had this problem also. I fixed it by running ecm power direct from the battery and then made sure I had a very good ignition power source to the ecm separate from the starter circuit.
It's possible. If it has LLY sensors in it, it was done before I got it.
Man, sounds like you have been there and done that :rofl: Wish I could've been there when you were getting your El Camino running. Would have saved me a lot of time troubleshooting. I will have to copy your method of fixing that :thumb:
Curious, but could the electrical systems of older cars just not be up to the task of carrying enough consistent voltage to adequately power these modern computer-controlled engines?
Is there a way to test the crank/cam sensors out of the engine to see if they are still good? For that matter, what would cause them to become "bad" from sitting in the first place?
Is there a way to test the crank/cam sensors out of the engine to see if they are still good? For that matter, what would cause them to become "bad" from sitting in the first place?
The entire car harness is a Painless kit, so I think it should be up to the task, but I'm no expert. And I also don't know what could cause the sensors to go bad. Not really sure if having the plugs reversed could have been a kiss of death because that seems unlikely. But Rob said the LBZ in his El Camino wouldn't fire from the sensors not communicating, so it's possible I'm experiencing the same thing.
God, I hope its that simple.
I do hope someday to see your car in person, shake your hand and buy you a beer. Its so damn impressive what you've done. :thumb:
I do hope someday to see your car in person, shake your hand and buy you a beer. Its so damn impressive what you've done. :thumb:
I hope it's that simple too. And thank you! I hope it lives up to everyone's expectations. It would be great to get out to some national nhrda events and see everybody. It's been awhile since I've gone to one. I need a vacation bad...