big three gonna lose the money...

[NelsonDiesel]

apparently the union workers say no they will not take a paycut and it seems they are gonna lose the 14 billion approved earlier.




Take a pay cut or lose your job.... hmmmmm...

 

[NelsonDiesel]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081212/ap_on_go_co/congress_autos

 

[WolfLMM]

We live in a nation of idiots now. I don't expect any rational dicisions to be made from now on.

 

[Cornell]

yeah, awesome

 

[Rhall]

I have mixed emotions about this, i am a union worker, but NOT in the UAW. Im a member of the IUEC. IMO, until some of the upper management took some pay cuts, i dont know if i would agree either. IMO, the problem lies in the free trade agreement, if America would tax some of the foriegn automakers, they would have to raise their prices to be competitive, and yes i do know that some of the foreign automakers have factories here in the states, but i garantee they get most of their parts from over seas, and also the big 3 would keep more of there work here in the US, due to high taxes on shipping it into the country, this would help unemployment, the economy, and all of the big 3 auto makers. Im just a young pup, so dont be too hard on me, i might not know what im talking about.

 

[Schwinn68]

I have mixed emotions about this, i am a union worker, but NOT in the UAW. Im a member of the IUEC. IMO, until some of the upper management took some pay cuts, i dont know if i would agree either. IMO, the problem lies in the free trade agreement, if America would tax some of the foriegn automakers, they would have to raise their prices to be competitive, and yes i do know that some of the foreign automakers have factories here in the states, but i garantee they get most of their parts from over seas, and also the big 3 would keep more of there work here in the US, due to high taxes on shipping it into the country, this would help unemployment, the economy, and all of the big 3 auto makers. Im just a young pup, so dont be too hard on me, i might not know what im talking about.

I agree with you

 

[SmokeShow]

I'm not saying I wouldn't want to do such hard work as some of the labor-intensive factory and construction jobs but I really don't see how we have any factories in America at all. Just the cost difference in wage expenses is ridiculous compared to other countries. It's no wonder we can't be competitively priced nor as well built (though some still are, many are not. yes I know there's exceptions to everything) for the money solely due to employee wages.

Something has GOT to give. I can't really imagine any of the big three no longer producing vehicles but reality is they are LOSING money every quarter. Something has to give and ain't no $15B gonna go it across the board.


C-ya

 

[WolfLMM]

I'm not saying I wouldn't want to do such hard work as some of the labor-intensive factory and construction jobs but I really don't see how we have any factories in America at all. Just the cost difference in wage expenses is ridiculous compared to other countries. It's no wonder we can't be competitively priced nor as well built (though some still are, many are not. yes I know there's exceptions to everything) for the money solely due to employee wages.

Something has GOT to give. I can't really imagine any of the big three no longer producing vehicles but reality is they are LOSING money every quarter. Something has to give and ain't no $15B gonna go it across the board.


C-ya

X2 Mitch, They want to re tool the factories to be competitve, It will cost GM nearly that much to re tool, and guess what when you retool to be more productive, jobs go away. The union workers are only prolonging the inevitable. Some labor has to go so automated equipment can take over, and reduce costs.

 

[McRat]

Guys, you have no idea the carnage that will occur if GM closes. There are thousands of suppliers that will collapse. Things like glass, plastics, computer chips, aluminum, and steel goods, etc, will be affected. Toyota/Honda/Nissan don't want GM to close. It will hurt them pretty bad too, since their supplier chain will be damaged.

 

[McRat]

By the way, I was UAW. For some reason, Rockwell International Defense Electronics was UAW. Problem was, UAW spent our dues promoting political candidates who wanted to shut down our factory. I made hydrogen bombs and other fun toys for the military.

We never got a choice whether we could keep our jobs. We were all laid off, and the factory is now a shopping center.

 

[NelsonDiesel]

By the way, I was UAW. For some reason, Rockwell International Defense Electronics was UAW. Problem was, UAW spent our dues promoting political candidates who wanted to shut down our factory. I made hydrogen bombs and other fun toys for the military.

We never got a choice whether we could keep our jobs. We were all laid off, and the factory is now a shopping center.

interesting !





i don't want gm to close down, much like everyone else. I'd like gm to stop paying out the ass for the benefits of the people that don't even work there anymore. I have to save up for my own retirement why not everyone else... there are a lot of little things that is screwing gm and most of it gets pointed back to the UAW. They were told to take a pay cut and they said no. Based off that reaction they don't need the bailout. I would like to see GM without the UAW and see how much our vehicles cost then.

If we can have a lower cost vehicle then we can sell more. If we can sell more then we can have more jobs all around !

 

[WolfLMM]

Guys, you have no idea the carnage that will occur if GM closes. There are thousands of suppliers that will collapse. Things like glass, plastics, computer chips, aluminum, and steel goods, etc, will be affected. Toyota/Honda/Nissan don't want GM to close. It will hurt them pretty bad too, since their supplier chain will be damaged.

Chp 11 is the answer. Gm doesn't have to close, they need to get their bills under control. If GM collaspes, others will move in to pick up the pieces.

 

[2500HeavyDuty]

The company i work for Johnson controls, alot of the employees are contracted by GM and were suffering down here too, we cant buy tools to get work done cause the company cant pay the bills

 

[WolfLMM]

interesting !





i don't want gm to close down, much like everyone else. I'd like gm to stop paying out the ass for the benefits of the people that don't even work there anymore. I have to save up for my own retirement why not everyone else... there are a lot of little things that is screwing gm and most of it gets pointed back to the UAW. They were told to take a pay cut and they said no. Based off that reaction they don't need the bailout. I would like to see GM without the UAW and see how much our vehicles cost then.

If we can have a lower cost vehicle then we can sell more. If we can sell more then we can have more jobs all around !

I agree, everybody is hung up on over night fixes, if GM tanks that takes care of the UAW problems, private investors then can move in and rebuild.

 

[ripmf666]

man that knife feels good in my back,we make nothing close to what they say we do,they need to cut the pay from the higher ups Greg I almost bet you make better pay then we do when you worked at the dealer,get paid for a 8 hr job and only take you 4 hrs to do it.

 

[Turbotug]

I have mixed emotions about this, i am a union worker, but NOT in the UAW. Im a member of the IUEC. IMO, until some of the upper management took some pay cuts, i dont know if i would agree either. IMO, the problem lies in the free trade agreement, if America would tax some of the foriegn automakers, they would have to raise their prices to be competitive, and yes i do know that some of the foreign automakers have factories here in the states, but i garantee they get most of their parts from over seas, and also the big 3 would keep more of there work here in the US, due to high taxes on shipping it into the country, this would help unemployment, the economy, and all of the big 3 auto makers. Im just a young pup, so dont be too hard on me, i might not know what im talking about.

Sorry dude, but check the window sticker of any Honda on the lot. It will tell you where most of the parts came from and any assembly was done. You will find that the majority are US. A simple VIN check will tell you that most vehicles are made HERE. Very few Honda vehicles actually come from Japan. US, Canada, and Mexico are the main Mfg points for the US market.

It seems that the only Mfg.s that can't efficiently operate in the US ARE the big three. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Subaru,etc all have plants operating here, no BK announcements from them...




*I worked with/for Honda as a wrench for many years..

 

[NelsonDiesel]

man that knife feels good in my back,we make nothing close to what they say we do,they need to cut the pay from the higher ups Greg I almost bet you make better pay then we do when you worked at the dealer,get paid for a 8 hr job and only take you 4 hrs to do it.

hold on a minute here buddy.

I'm not saying you guys aren't worth what you are paid. My issue is this. i worked at simpson. We fell on hard times and we all had to take a pay cut. Nobody was happy about it but we took it as being happy we have a job. I eventually got laid off... found a better dealer... yadda yadda.

Anyway. What i'm saying is the UAW were told to take pay cuts and they rejected it. That to me sounds like they are not willing to make an effort to get things back on track. Basicly said they are getting what they are paid till 2011 because thats when the contract is up. I have many friends in the union and it has it's good points and it's bad points...

I didn't know you were in the UAW henry, hopefully you can shed some more information on this because all we are hearing around here is what we can read. I know it's not 100% accurate but when you hear things like this, it makes you wonder. Is the UAW being greedy? I dunno. Is it affecting my job, hell ya it is !

We are flat rate paid and if it only takes 4 hours to complete a job and it pays 8 then yes. What if you are at work for 10 hours a day and you only get paid for 6? It's fairly common....

I'm sorry henry if i offended you. Didn't mean to. Speaking out in anger over the whole situation....

 

[NelsonDiesel]

new info i just read.... this is what was being pushed and i am assuming is what got shot down.....


"Corker has crafted a separate, three-pronged plan:

* It would require the two firms closest to bankruptcy, General Motors and Chrysler, to reduce their debt by two-thirds. Bondholders would have “plenty of incentive to make sure that the debt is reduced by two-thirds” or risk losing even more if the firms go into Chapter 11, where their bonds might be further discounted, Corker said. “We’re going to force them into bankruptcy if they don’t do this,” he said bluntly.
* He also would require that the Voluntary Employee Benefit Association, the entity created by the car firms and the UAW to handle retiree health care benefits, accept stock in lieu of half the cash payments due. The carmakers had agreed to fund VEBA but can no longer afford to do so. “If a company goes bankrupt, these future payments are never going to happen anyway,” he said.
* Finally, Corker’s bill would force the UAW to lower its members’ wages to the level of workers at the American “transplants,” the factories in Tennessee and other states owned by Toyota, Hyundai and other foreign car companies."

 

[ripmf666]

we as members do not hear of pay cuts we see what you are at this point we make less then some other automakers,we as members can not help that gm has more retired works then any other and once the other have been around for 100 years they will also have the same troubles,are health care is no were as good as they let on most go to see the doctors and they pay a copay of mybe 10 to 40 bucks we pay full cost no copay office visit cost me 100 to 300 depending on if its a red doctor or specialist,meds copay is 10 to 40 and some are not covered at all,we use to at one time about 12 years ago get 401k matched dollar for dollar gm just stopped doing that this year for there formans,but they want more taken away from us the less payed I will type more later I'm on my treo

 

[ripmf666]

URGENT Call to Action from Troy Clarke, President GM North America

Dear Employee,

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Next week, Congress and the current Administration will determine whether to provide immediate support to the domestic auto industry to help it through one of the most difficult economic times in our nation’s history. Your elected officials must hear from all of us now on why this support is critical to our continuing the progress we began prior to the global financial crisis.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]As you know, we have taken the tough, necessary actions over the last few years to strengthen our competitive position.

With our UAW partners we have reshaped our business and will have reduced our structural costs by more than $13 billion by 2010 and have closed the quality and efficiency gaps with our competitors. We also are building products that have received great customer acceptance and acclaim, as we have seen with the Chevy Malibu, Cadillac CTS and our family of crossovers. And, there’s more to come with the Chevy Volt which will position GM as a global technology leader as well as more hybrids and fuel efficient passenger cars like the Chevy Cruze.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The consequences, however, of a portion of the domestic auto industry collapsing extend far beyond GM’s ability to continue its transformation. One in 10 American jobs depend on our industry, as well as the health of communities, dealers and suppliers in all 50 states. As you know, nearly 3 million employees, retirees, and their families also depend on us for their pensions and health care. Because of our economic contribution, the cost of allowing this industry to fail would be catastrophic: 3 million jobs lost within the first year; U.S. personal income reduced by $150.7 billion; a government tax loss over three years of more than $156 billion. This level of economic devastation far exceeds the $25 billion of government support that our industry needs to bridge this current period.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Today, I want you to take the time to contact your members of Congress to ask them to support America’s domestic auto industry. Please call the following number to be connected with your legislators 1-866-927-2233. Directions and key messages are in the attached document to assist you with the calls.

Also attached is a fact sheet that includes the economic figures cited above. Additionally, you can visit [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]www.gmfactsandfiction.com[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] to obtain further information on the auto industry and GM. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Support for the domestic auto industry will contribute to a stronger economy, save millions of jobs, and establish U.S. manufacturing and technology leadership in the global marketplace. As an employee, you have a lot at stake and continue to be one of our most effective and passionate voices. I know GM can count on you to have your voice heard.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Thank you for your urgent action and ongoing support.[/FONT]

Troy Clarke
President
GM North America