Who is running AF (alternate firing) order cams, and for how long?
- Thread starter Hot COCOAL
- Start date
Who? Do you know, or are you just guessing? Why do people keep stuff like that a secret?
HAVE YOU SEEN THIS WITH YOUR OWN EYE'S?:seesaw:
Has someone told you directly?
Or are you hating because you don't have one?
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Actually three prominent engine builders have seen multiple broken cranks with the alternate firing order camshaft. I have been researching it myself to determine if it was worth my money to change as I do have the fuel and air to make big power and wanted to do things within reason to prevent damages. I did not want to run out and buy the next miracle cure for something that turned out not to be the cure. That doesn't make me right or wrong about this happening. It just seems that most guys hear what they want about this and that and think it applies to every situation and it doesn't. I would hope that there is a cure for the normal guys out there that they can afford to do and is not a bunch of hype. No hating here just being real on the expectations.
I hope EDP steps in soon so clear this up.
I really don't want to believe that cranks have broken with the new alt firing cam.
I also don't want to take a risk on a stock cam breaking my crank after all the money I'm putting into my engine to build it.
I really don't want to believe that cranks have broken with the new alt firing cam.
I also don't want to take a risk on a stock cam breaking my crank after all the money I'm putting into my engine to build it.
I completely understand, and I'm a little suspicious that changing the firing order can totally cure the broken crank issues as well. However, there seems to be a real improvement in real world use, and Fingers' computer simulations shows that the firing order most of these alt. fire cams are running does alleviate some stress on the crank. I'd really like to hear more about the failures that were running the alt. fire cam. I know EDP had a couple of different versions, and there are more factors involved in a broken crank than what a firing order swap can fix. Saying they are still breaking does nothing to help address the issue. All it does is make people doubt it even helps. To really be helpful the builders who are seeing failures should share their findings. I never have understood why people don't want to work together to fix a real problem.
I completely agree Josh. So much could be accomplished if people shared their experiences. I do understand it is a catch 22 since people may interpret those guys failures as them not knowing what they are doing instead of it happened and let's figure out now how to stop it from happening. It is their livelihood and could be irreparably damaged if interpreted wrong. I do not know a single person that hasn't had theories that they tested and didn't have some fail. Those experiences though would help make good progress in the right direction if only taken at face value.
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Lets be clear, I did not run a model with the alt fire cam. I did a quick torque averaging calc that implied the torque loading on the crank would be smoother with the alt fire cam.
Sorry Fingers. I just remembered you ran something that said the alt fire cam would be easier on the crank.
you still have to remember there is a limit to these cranks just like any other crank even if the common problem is fixed it will still break at some point, especially when these "failures" happened on pulling trucks they are ran HARD with plenty of driveline shock.
Dont remember where I saw it...but IIRC it was one of Fingers posts that shows a normal fire cam has a 4.3 wist ratio and a alt fire cam has a 2.6 twist ratio.....
My ???? is that if the alt fire cam has less of a twist ratio...is it making less torque across the whole rpm band?? Isnt torque part of the twist ratio formula??? I would like to see a dyno sheet of a back to back normal cam vs a alt fire cam.... just for the torque curve.... I dont care if its a max effort or even the best tune out there... it could be even a start up break in tune for all I care.... just a back to back run...
to me it just seems that with a lower twist ratio the overall torque number would be down......
My ???? is that if the alt fire cam has less of a twist ratio...is it making less torque across the whole rpm band?? Isnt torque part of the twist ratio formula??? I would like to see a dyno sheet of a back to back normal cam vs a alt fire cam.... just for the torque curve.... I dont care if its a max effort or even the best tune out there... it could be even a start up break in tune for all I care.... just a back to back run...
to me it just seems that with a lower twist ratio the overall torque number would be down......
You're confusing facts with theory andanecdotal evidence. I appreciate those guys as well, but you seem to believe in facts tha don't exist.
IdahoRob has stated that he has magnafluxed his af cam cranks and no cracks whereas his standard cam crank has a crack in it
Fingers has also done models to show twist variation
Both Factual
Haha, yes they're facts as in Rob made a factual statement that doesn't prove anything and Jon has in fact done some modeling that hasn't proven anything yet. Here's a fact for you, it's a fact that I'm saying pigs fly right now. See, FACTS. Of course pigs don't actually fly but it's still a fact I said it. I don't get why you go around so dedicated to things that you have no proof for? In fact when people promote things as already known facts that aren't really facts it's bad for everyone. I'd like to see more research into the problem, rather than "well that ones been solved", when it hasn't been solved.