VW TDi and EPA oops

[durallymax]

You won't drawn any attention if you do the delete mack, just don't go to the dealer.

AFAIK the deal was the 2016s would be released when VW explained. I wouldn't put it past the EPA to play hardball even further though.

If the EPA really starts throwing their weight around I could see VW just saying screw it. The TDI sales in the US are a drop in the bucket for them.

Fuel economy will likely drop with whatever update they come up with. The EPA estimates are determined during the test for emissions. I guess we all know why the TDIs always get better fuel economy than the EPA estimate. If the update reduces economy or reliability, resale will drop some. TDIs always sell way too high used though so I don't see a huge drop in value. In the extreme case VW pulls the TDI, value will go up. The people who actually care about emissions are very vocal but don't represent a huge portion of the marketshare.

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[TheBac]

VDub looking at the potential for $18B in fines. Damn.


VINNY! Wonderful to hear from you again! We were all wondering how you've been. Hopefully healthy and happy.

 

[Hot COCOAL]

Don't know what to do, we were going to pull the trigger on doing a Rawtek and Malone Stage II but don't want to draw any attention, we are fortunate we don't have emissions testing where we live in Indiana

The delete in itself wouldn't be such an issue, its using the whole Rawtek system to run the Malone stg2 tuning...it is SIGNIFICANTLY louder than stock, it smells like a school bus and it will have soot coming out the pipe under heavy throttle use with a full rawtek system and stg2 tuning

I can only get 38 mpg highway with my 05 Passat TDI ��

That's really is, not that good. That's about what mine got when it was new, actually it was a little less than that. But, tank by tank the average went up as it broke in

Fuel economy will likely drop with whatever update they come up with. The EPA estimates are determined during the test for emissions. I guess we all know why the TDIs always get better fuel economy than the EPA estimate. If the update reduces economy or reliability, resale will drop some. TDIs always sell way too high used though so I don't see a huge drop in value. In the extreme case VW pulls the TDI, value will go up. The people who actually care about emissions are very vocal but don't represent a huge portion of the marketshare.

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excellent point about the possibility of the value actually being driven up...although as you also noted, their used value is already over inflated and the used market isn't technically contributing anything to VW's bottom line anyways so its not helping them get out of this mess
Lol

I see what youre sayin an all, Call me pessimistic but I do forsee that this debacle will hit VW's profit margin, company image, stock exchange rate and market share/market stability, pretty hard...and I believe it will be difficult for them to recover, which could even lend us to see them merging/selling out with/to another manufacturer to survive

I believe this, wether the EPA doesnt allow 2016 models to sell in the US or not...
And, even if VW decided to say screw the US EPA and did abandon the US market in an effort to minimize immediate losses, with the mentality "its a drop in the bucket", I think the big picture is that this scam has created a world wide issue with VW's credibility and ethics

Just my .02...
:hug:

 

[DAVe3283]

Unfortunately, I do see values tanking...I read a bunch of blogs and went back to the VWvortex and Mk6golf forum and people are pissed and the overall feeling is owners feel duped, and secondly, if these owners re flash the ECM with the new tuning, they're gonna lose HP/Tq and economy...every reason to buy a "clean diesel" just got tossed out the window. Many people have already sold their TDi's and many more have said it will be their last VW...

Of course, time will tell the tale better than speculation.
:hello:

I know a couple people with VW TDIs, and they both say they would have bought the cars again even knowing what VW did. Their main concern is that the reflash will hurt fuel mileage, which is already (IMO) not that good.

I can only get 38 mpg highway with my 05 Passat TDI

That is about what my friends get, and is within 1 MPG of what my gas 2013 Cruze gets. I've put 48,000 miles on my car, and I have averaged over 35 MPG. As much as I love diesels, I just don't think the extra purchase price and increased maintenance costs justify the extra 1-2 MPG (on more expensive fuel!)

 

[durallymax]

I know a couple people with VW TDIs, and they both say they would have bought the cars again even knowing what VW did. Their main concern is that the reflash will hurt fuel mileage.

As much as I love diesels, I just don't think the extra purchase price and increased maintenance costs justify the extra 1-2 MPG (on more expensive fuel!)

The mileage for TDIs is usually well above the EPA numbers. Now we know why. The EPA numbers are established at the same time as the emissions test so mileage will likely drop closer to the estimates depending on what the refresh actually is.

There are gas engines that can get great economy too, but the ones that do are nowhere near as fun to drive as a TDI. The instant torque is a lot of fun and practical for daily driving too.

Initial purchase is higher but resale is also stupidly high so that helps. Maintenance is slightly higher, but as with any diesel it's only due to the fuel filter which is around $10-15. It's a minor cost overall IMO. The rest of the maintenance is similar. Fuel was expensive for awhile but now diesel is finally cheaper than gas. If you want to pencil everything out I wouldn't say the TDI is always the best, but the difference isn't huge and the fun factor is there too, how much that matters depends on the individual. There's fun gas motors, but their mileage sucks.

I think this ordeal could help the Cruze Diesel sales some, but not a ton. GM really needs to offer a manual in the diesel, there's still a ton of TDI people running manuals that prefer them, myself included.

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[durallymax]

The delete in itself wouldn't be such an issue, its using the whole Rawtek system to run the Malone stg2 tuning...it is SIGNIFICANTLY louder than stock, it smells like a school bus and it will have soot coming out the pipe under heavy throttle use with a full rawtek system and stg2 tuning

I see what youre sayin an all, Call me pessimistic but I do forsee that this debacle will hit VW's profit margin, company image, stock exchange rate and market share/market stability, pretty hard...and I believe it will be difficult for them to recover, which could even lend us to see them merging/selling out with/to another manufacturer to survive

The straight pipe is LOUD. Up towards 3k it gets extremely obnoxious. Just keep the stock muffler and it's actually pretty quiet. Performance is the same.

Here's a video with muffler. Just lots of turbo noise, not obnoxious.

[YOUTUBE]Cn4YAMx6sxQ[/YOUTUBE]

One without. Louder than a straight pipe duramax. Inside videos are on my page too. It's louder inside with just the delete but not terrible. Without muffler though it actually starts rattling stuff inside. Change will rattle, any loose trim, etc.

[YOUTUBE]n5Ns2Kqp-Mo[/YOUTUBE]


They definitely have that cold diesel startup with blue haze. You certainly smell them a lot more too. I never really notice any haze under acceleration but the bumper does turn black pretty quick. It's a lot of fun to drive though.


As for VWs fate, the news is hurting them hard right now. Stocks dropped a lot, but there's a lot of things that have yet to be explained. IIRC the engine tuning is handled by the regional engineers where the car is sold. I don't know how it all works but it's possible it was just a regional deal. If so, it won't be as big of a deal I don't think. If they are found to have cheated the Euro stuff, things could go bad, but IIRC the Euro tests don't have the flaws of the EPA tests. I could be wrong though. It also might be discovered that other OEMs cheated as well. They didn't kill anybody, but they did cheat which hurts trust and reputation somewhat.

I highly doubt they would sellout or merge or even be allowed to under anti trust laws. VAG is massive, nearly the largest automaker in the world. For comparison, their equity is three times what GMs is. They have nearly $400 billion in assets.

If they're found to have cheated in Europe too, that could hurt them pretty hard but there's still a lot of people that buy the car they want because they like the car. Look at all of GMs issues the past few years and people still buy them everyday.


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[durallymax]

These are always entertaining lol.

[YOUTUBE]dKef1JFpiCA[/YOUTUBE]

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[SmokeShow]

:spit:

 

[Awenta]

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[bigmackmiller]

lol, was planning on doing the economy option of the rawtek, ties into stock system minus a few things, started throwing exhaust flapper codes every so often, so told my wife if we don't do it soon, she will start having more problems, says well we better just get it fixed now :woott:

 

[Howling]

I daily a 2013 Volkswagen TDI Golf with Buzzken downpipe and mid pipe into the stock muffler. Malone stage 2 and DSG tune. It's a fun peppy car that gets excellent fuel mileage. Coming up on the 40k service soon.

 

[durallymax]

I'm not sure what you mean by not necessarily, they have admitted to doing it and it was intentional. I agree with you, it's all in the tuning.

At first I thought it would blow over and they could possibly come out okay. I've been following it the past couple days though and the way things are going, VW is in tough shape unless the probes reveal a lot of other automakers did the same thing.

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[PACougar]

Oh it's getting worse, VW jus admitted they used the same software on another 11 million vehicles sold in Europe. It sounds like they may not be meeting emissions standards over there either.

 

[catman3126]

Oh it's getting worse, VW jus admitted they used the same software on another 11 million vehicles sold in Europe. It sounds like they may not be meeting emissions standards over there either.

OH damn, that's makes 482K look kinda small in comparison.

 

[lts1ow]

Guess now is the time to scoop one up :roflmao:

 

[catman3126]

I'm thinking I better order a rawtek kit for the wifes 12' IDK if this will have any effect of being able to get one of those but you never know.

 

[durallymax]

Oh it's getting worse, VW jus admitted they used the same software on another 11 million vehicles sold in Europe. It sounds like they may not be meeting emissions standards over there either.

Yep once I saw that and the amount their stocks have dropped, it seemed like they may not dig out of this hole too easily.

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[Awenta]

Guess now is the time to scoop one up

Wait for the tree huggers to start handing them out

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[durallymax]

Ceo resigned today

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[NC-smokinlmm]

Wait for the tree huggers to start handing them out

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:happy2: