The dsg holds up well in the tuned 2.0 turbos but they also don't make the torque those tdi's do
VW TDi and EPA oops
- Thread starter lts1ow
- Start date
The dsg holds up well in the tuned 2.0 turbos but they also don't make the torque those tdi's do
yeah doing a delete tune on a DSG is only good to 20-25 hp but if you do the DSG tune with the delete 2.0 tune then you can run a 70 hp tune. but your looking at about 1200$ for both tunes.
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There's a few tuners, mine may have some spicy tuna and a few missing parts. It rips though. Cheap fun car,got another track day in a couple weeks. Long trips at 80mph ish gets 45mpg+. Flogging it hard around town daily I still get 38mpg or so.
The way the EPA explained it is piss poor. The way I understand it, VW simply had the ECM monitor certain parameters that would notice the EPA test procedure. The test procedure is the same and known to many. I know one thing they cited was looking at the steering angle to help identify the car was on a dyno. I think as long as the ECM felt it was under the test conditions, it would continue to run the so called "dyno tune", once it was out of these conditions it reverted to the regular tune. I would assume VW altered a number of things in the tune to reduce the NOx. Simply retarding timing, adding more egr, running it a bit rich would all drop the NOx but send PM through the roof. The DPF will always stop the PM though. Maybe they knew this and knew the DPF would be short lived so to keep costs down, avoid SCR, keep customers happy, etc etc they came up with a workaround. I'm no coder/programmer etc, but to me it really doesn't seem like it would be all that hard to do.
I wouldn't say VW themselves necessarily did it on purpose or new about it. It's possible the big table said build this engine to these specs for this cost by this date. The engineers said Okay and did what they had to in order to make it work. Just one possible scenario. Without actually knowing any facts yet it's pretty hard to speculate.
If everything is as it seems so far, them the hard part for VW is going to be he reputation. 99% of us on here could give two shits about slightly higher NOx and many of us, including myself, can't help but want to give VW a high five for making a fool out of the EPA. Obviously the EPA is too stupid to figure it out and probably never would've if it wasn't for the study from WVU triggering it. Then the EPA still couldn't figure it out and it wasn't until they threatened to pull the 2016 TDI certs, that VW started explaining.
However VW pushes the whole clean diesel thing pretty hard and is generally thought of as eco friendly. The people buying their cars are often more of the eco friendly bunch also. Just go read through threads on the TDI forums and you will see the huge butthurt.
To me this is no big deal. I skimmed through the WVU research and it shows the TDI Jetta having as much as 40 times the limit for NOx. Not all the time, just some. Keep in mind this is just the 09-14 which has no DEF/SCR just a NOx trap. The passat with SCR was still over but by much less. People are flipping out over the 40x number. It's really not that big though. In the study, 40 times the limit of 0.04g/km is 1.6g/km. Is that really a lot? No, it's pretty close to what pre 2003 cars were at. A semi with the latest DPF/DEF engine will still put out close to that or more.
VW will have to save some face on this. Obviously they won't get the maximum 18 billion fine. If the EPA wants to make an example out of them I see them just pulling out. Hopefully others join in and make an example out of the EPA and put them in their place. I have far more respect for VW than the EPA. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but there's a lot more to this I suspect.
VW has pulled all of the TDI advertising and such for now.
The irony in some of this that makes the EPA look foolish is the fact they lobbied against the proposal to allow outside people legal access to the code in the ECMs of autos, trucks, etc.
The DPF isn't under it, it's actually mounted to the turbo right between the engine and firewall.they are so damb low you cant fit under it to find out
Not necessarily, they are not dumb. The admission was not a knee jerk response. What their next few moves and overall plan is, I don't know, but I guarantee they do. It will be interesting.
It'll likely need a DSG tune as well.
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I'm not sure what you mean by not necessarily, they have admitted to doing it and it was intentional. I agree with you, it's all in the tuning.
Great tech info, thanks Vinny! As soon as I heard about this, I was looking for an actual explanation of the nitty-gritty tech details...not the idiot EPA-desk-jokey explanation.
You mean there's not actually a "switch" I can flip to turn emissions on and off? Lol
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I was just about to pull the trigger on a delete kit for our 12' 6 speed and do the 70 hp tune. I might wait and see what happens with this. Is it possible that wen they are on the dump the computer recognizes that the rear wheels aren't spinning by abs sensors and does this so called tune? How would the steering angle do that unless they figure it would be turning somewhat after a certain distance and that it decides it's on a du I and to run this other tuning to make it look cleaner.
Same here, and same car, they can't mandate that we have to take it to VW to update emissions can they? We recieved a notice from VW about a month ago for a software update for emissions, was it possible they knew someone was on to them?
We took ours in for that too. Yeah that could very well be I'm sure this story did t get released as soon as this happened. I bet that is what it was that as soon as the EPA told them they are busted they did this recall
But they put in there thT if you didn't get the recall done you don't get the long warranty on the CP4 pump if I remember right
No unless you live in a state that can withold your annual registration if you don't. Some places that require emissions testing can I guess.
Otherwise, providing you avoid the dealer, it won't be installed. If you go there for anything though it's likely they would install it even without mentioning it.
This didn't happen overnight. It started about a year ago when WVU did a study on actual emissions while driving with a TDI Jetta, Passat TDI and BMW X5d. The results showed the VWs well about the limits. The cars were tested on the dynos according to the EPA procedure and passed. EPA and CARB asked VW what was happening, VW said there may be some glitch etc and issued the updated calibration many of us got a letter for. IIRC they actually did this two different times and then the EPA threatened to not certify the 2016s (that are currently sitting in port) unless VW could explain or get to the bottom of the issue.
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I've been reading up on this in the news, after finding out about it here...yeas I live under a rock...anyways, CRAZY TIMES! Unbelievable move by VW...
they're being threatened with fines of $37,500 per car, at a tune of 482,000 cars for a total of 18 billion dollars
AND
Supposedly, NONE of the 2016's are being allowed to offload into US ports, at this time...
HOLY SH!T
Bad news for Vdub, but as an enthusiast, these cars are fun to tune, they get great fuel economy and are a blast to drive around as an economical DD...and I'm guessing very soon, they will be dirt cheap
they're being threatened with fines of $37,500 per car, at a tune of 482,000 cars for a total of 18 billion dollars
AND
Supposedly, NONE of the 2016's are being allowed to offload into US ports, at this time...
HOLY SH!T
Bad news for Vdub, but as an enthusiast, these cars are fun to tune, they get great fuel economy and are a blast to drive around as an economical DD...and I'm guessing very soon, they will be dirt cheap
I want one if the values go low enough. Run you PC ****ers, sell, sell, sell that car that has the same emissions as an 18 wheeler. I want it!!! Lol...
dude...tell me about it
I've had (what i refer to as) a near death experience in a VW, due to a Glitch in the software. I swore I would never own another VW or Audi product. BUT...
That happened a Golf R equipped with the Haldex AWD, it was tuned and the AWD is what glitched...took me and my daughter for an unexpected and IMMEDIATE detour off the freeway and totaled the car, I was told by the medical response crew that they were totally blown away that we walked away from it, so I guess the car did its most important job, very well...I posted about it when it happened
That memory has faded a bit and now that it's been almost two years I do believe I'd drive/own another one of the TDi cars if the price point dropped significantly. I'd swap seats for leather GTI or golf R seats and I'd go to town with it...I loved my TDi, it never had a single issue and it really never got old to drive...the way it was set up and back in 2012, it would dust a stock mustang GT or Camaro SS from a dig to 80 with ease
good times, fer sure
lol
The EPA threatened to pull the certs for the 2016 TDIs unless VW could explain. VW did, so the 2016s should be allowed out of Port now.
I don't see values dropping much.
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I don't see values dropping much.
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oh...I thought I read that initially all they had to do was explain, but then the EPA laid the smack down and required VW to re-flash all the cars with software that didn't use a defeat devise/algorithm
Unfortunately, I do see values tanking...I read a bunch of blogs and went back to the VWvortex and Mk6golf forum and people are pissed and the overall feeling is owners feel duped, and secondly, if these owners re flash the ECM with the new tuning, they're gonna lose HP/Tq and economy...every reason to buy a "clean diesel" just got tossed out the window. Many people have already sold their TDi's and many more have said it will be their last VW...
Of course, time will tell the tale better than speculation.
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Yeah we didn't go get ours reflashed because I heard mileage went down after doing so, there by causing more fuel to be consumed and more detriment to the environment, what a bunch of bull, make an engine run less efficient.
Don't know what to do, we were going to pull the trigger on doing a Rawtek and Malone Stage II but don't want to draw any attention, we are fortunate we don't have emissions testing where we live in Indiana
