Now...im usually not one for cosmetic mods...but I think I might just have to scrounge up some pennies to buy some of these badges for the doors of the beetle. 
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video of my Vortec V8 beetle
- Thread starter duratothemax
- Start date
some small pics. Ill post more later.
you can see how I made the drivetrain/flipped it around with the custom cross member and motor mounts. I had to plate the rear frame and make a whole new rear frame section out of 2x4 box because it was kinda rotted. Its plenty strong now.
You can also see a pic of the offending chevy steering column, after I threw it out of the shop.
you can see how I made the drivetrain/flipped it around with the custom cross member and motor mounts. I had to plate the rear frame and make a whole new rear frame section out of 2x4 box because it was kinda rotted. Its plenty strong now.
You can also see a pic of the offending chevy steering column, after I threw it out of the shop.
Attachments
What kind of Transfer Case is that. And is it front wheel drive when in 2wd? If not, how did you get it to work right? Yes, this is something I have wanted to do for years. And now I wanna try it with a D-Max. Just for giggles.
Just for giggles.
its a BW 1339 (borg warner). Probably more commonly known as a jeep "quadra-trac". It was offered in the CJ from 76-80 IIRC. Its a pretty cool case and as long as you keep an eye on the chain tension, very durable.
It has only two modes, full time 4wd, and part time 4wd, activated by a vacuum switch. There is no 2wd on it. Mine also a nice 2.57:1 low range; not all of the quadra-trac cases had low range. But yes, it if was a normal part-time case, if I had it in 2wd, it would be front wheel drive. Im going to put some selectable hubs on the front, so I can have 2wd (keep the case in part-time 4x4, but disconnect the hubs...giving me rear wheel drive). The full-time part is actually pretty clever, it uses some sort of brake cone setup that is MUCH smarter and more adept than you would think a non-computer controlled torque biasing xfer case would be. Its not just your standard full time case that basically just has an open diff between the front and rear outputs like an NP208 or something.
Obviously to make a project like this work you need a transfer case (and axles) with both outputs offset to one side. I dont know of many cases that have both outputs offset. The Dana 18 is one of the only other transfer cases I can think of that has an offset drive.
if you do this drivetrain setup you will have to flip the axles as well so you dont have 3 speeds in reverse! The knuckles on the front axle must be cut off and flipped/rewelded because otherwise the ball joints will separate from the force being on the "wrong" side. Same for the rear, the backing plates need to be flipped. Technically you might have oiling issues running the axles upside down but whatever, ill run them until they blow up. Its not like dana 30's and AMC 20's are hard to come by or expensive. If I break these though Ill probably upgrade to something stronger.
ben
It has only two modes, full time 4wd, and part time 4wd, activated by a vacuum switch. There is no 2wd on it. Mine also a nice 2.57:1 low range; not all of the quadra-trac cases had low range. But yes, it if was a normal part-time case, if I had it in 2wd, it would be front wheel drive. Im going to put some selectable hubs on the front, so I can have 2wd (keep the case in part-time 4x4, but disconnect the hubs...giving me rear wheel drive). The full-time part is actually pretty clever, it uses some sort of brake cone setup that is MUCH smarter and more adept than you would think a non-computer controlled torque biasing xfer case would be. Its not just your standard full time case that basically just has an open diff between the front and rear outputs like an NP208 or something.
Obviously to make a project like this work you need a transfer case (and axles) with both outputs offset to one side. I dont know of many cases that have both outputs offset. The Dana 18 is one of the only other transfer cases I can think of that has an offset drive.
if you do this drivetrain setup you will have to flip the axles as well so you dont have 3 speeds in reverse! The knuckles on the front axle must be cut off and flipped/rewelded because otherwise the ball joints will separate from the force being on the "wrong" side. Same for the rear, the backing plates need to be flipped. Technically you might have oiling issues running the axles upside down but whatever, ill run them until they blow up. Its not like dana 30's and AMC 20's are hard to come by or expensive. If I break these though Ill probably upgrade to something stronger.
ben
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another video...Ill make a driving video in a little bit.
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well I made some tuning changes today...holy crap...
The motor is a 1999. I converted it to drive by wire, swapped on an ETC throttle body, drive by wire harness, and swapped in a 2003+ 1 meg PCM. I flashed it with a 2004 4.8 calibration...I mean all 4.8's are and always have been the same right? Apparently not. I figured for ha-ha's I would re-plug in the original 1999 PCM that I got with the motor and pull that tune and compare it to the 2004 4.8 tune that I was running. The VE tables, spark tables, mixture, injector flow, etc were significantly different between the 1999 4.8 and the 2004 4.8 tunes. So I copied all the 1999 4.8 tables that were different into the 2004 4.8 tune, flashed it and took it for a test drive.
WOW. It moved ok before, kinda dead up top, but ok....now its downright scary. On a power-braked 4 wheel drive launch it almost feels like it pulls a front tire off the ground, and the steering jumps left and then right...and then it just hauls ass up until I got scared around 55mph.
Idles even smoother now too. Ill take some driving videos tomorrow.
ben
The motor is a 1999. I converted it to drive by wire, swapped on an ETC throttle body, drive by wire harness, and swapped in a 2003+ 1 meg PCM. I flashed it with a 2004 4.8 calibration...I mean all 4.8's are and always have been the same right? Apparently not. I figured for ha-ha's I would re-plug in the original 1999 PCM that I got with the motor and pull that tune and compare it to the 2004 4.8 tune that I was running. The VE tables, spark tables, mixture, injector flow, etc were significantly different between the 1999 4.8 and the 2004 4.8 tunes. So I copied all the 1999 4.8 tables that were different into the 2004 4.8 tune, flashed it and took it for a test drive.
WOW. It moved ok before, kinda dead up top, but ok....now its downright scary. On a power-braked 4 wheel drive launch it almost feels like it pulls a front tire off the ground, and the steering jumps left and then right...and then it just hauls ass up until I got scared around 55mph.
Idles even smoother now too. Ill take some driving videos tomorrow.
ben
heres a video of it driving today.
Even with 35" super swampers, 3.55 gears, and the fairly high 2.48 first gear on the TH400, it will still spin all 4 tires just mashing it from a stop. The off-idle throttle response is pretty sweet. I dunno why everyone complains that drive by wire has lag... If you do a power braked launch it really takes off...but even without power braking it the takeoff is fun.
Its hard to hear the tires spinning in the video, the non-'boosted' launch (just mashing it) is at 0:54
The yellow light in the speedometer used to be an oil pressure warning on the beetles, but I made it into the check engine light. Its throwing a DTC and the check engine light is on because I dont have a VSS hooked up...
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Even with 35" super swampers, 3.55 gears, and the fairly high 2.48 first gear on the TH400, it will still spin all 4 tires just mashing it from a stop. The off-idle throttle response is pretty sweet. I dunno why everyone complains that drive by wire has lag... If you do a power braked launch it really takes off...but even without power braking it the takeoff is fun.
Its hard to hear the tires spinning in the video, the non-'boosted' launch (just mashing it) is at 0:54
The yellow light in the speedometer used to be an oil pressure warning on the beetles, but I made it into the check engine light. Its throwing a DTC and the check engine light is on because I dont have a VSS hooked up...
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Ben that's pretty cool. Congrats on pulling it off, not many people would attempt that type of conversion.
Ben, lets see if Im understanding right. So thats a Jeep frame? And you actually installed the Beetle body on it backwards so the drivetrain runs from back to front and the Tcase divides the power back to the rear wheels? Are you eventually going to install the radiator up front and run lines back, sorta like the Fiero's did?
Pretty darn ingenious...just like everything else you do. :hug:
Pretty darn ingenious...just like everything else you do. :hug:
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:spit:holy crap ben how did i miss this thread. that's awesome man!! glad you got it all worked out and going good. looks like a wild ass ride.
jeez man what took you so long to see this!!!
Bet you never thought that 4.8 would have a second life like this...
Runs beautifully and STRONG...like all Gen III and IV GM small blocks do!
ha no shit ben. i remember seeing a pic of the thing but the video is awesome. please get someone else to take the video from the outside so we can see this beast in action.
i showed it to my girlfriend and now she wants to build a beetle wheeler w/a cummins:rofl:
i showed it to my girlfriend and now she wants to build a beetle wheeler w/a cummins:rofl:
yeah kinda, I started out with a Jeep CJ7 frame.
The CJ7 frame was within a couple inches of the beetle dimensions in both track and wheelbase, believe it or not. I thought for sure the beetle was going to be way shorter than a CJ7. Really shows you how short a CJ5 is in comparison if a CJ7 is the length of a VW beetle!
I had to make a new custom rear frame section and rear bumper from scratch because it was kinda rotted out on the original frame.
The frame is still going "the right way"; the front of the frame still faces forward. All I did was fab up some motor mounts in the rear of the frame, kinda like under where the back seat would be on a Jeep. I modified the beetle body and fenders to fit the Jeep frame, made a custom floor, crossmembers, and custom body mounts so the beetle body sits level and solidly on the frame.
Heres where it gets kinda "tricky" and hurts your head trying to think of it/visualize it. The engine, transmission, and transfer case are set/mounted in the frame backwards. The accessory mounts/serpentine belt on the motor face the rear. So the tranny sits kinda under the front seats instead of under your feet like in a normal front engine car.
The key to making this setup work (only way to make it work) is using a transfer case that is "offset drive", meaning BOTH outputs are offset to the same side. Whereas normally transfer cases have the rear output straight inline with the transmission and the front output offset to either the driver or passenger side.
The Borgwarner BW1339 (also known as quadra-trac on jeep-speak) has both outputs (and both front/rear differential pumpkins...the rear diff in a CJ with quadratrac is NOT centered in the axle) offset to the passenger side in a normal front drive application. It does not have 2 wheel drive. It has two modes, "full-time" 4wd (or I guess you could call it all wheel drive), and "part-time" 4wd, which locks everything together like on our trucks. I have a switch on the dash to toggle it between part time and full time mode. It also has a nice 2.58:1 low range. I dont have a shifter for that made yet. If I want to put the xfer case in low range I have to crawl under the beetle and flip the lever with my hand.
So you take the whole engine/trans/transfer case as one unit out of the front.....spin it 180* and mount it in the back of the frame. Now the rear output of the transfer case faces front...and the front output of the xfer case faces rear. But now the differential pumpkins are on the wrong side because when you flipped the drivetrain 180* everything is now on the driver side. So you flip the axles upside down and backwards so the ring and pinions are flipped. This is also key because now that the drivetrain is backwards, if you didnt flip and reverse the axles, "drive" would make the car go backwards and reverse would make it go forwards.
OK so now everything is on the correct side to match up and the axles are upside down so we have "drive" and "reverse" correct. BUT. Axles arent designed to be run upside down. The spring perches are on the wrong side, and on a balljoint (vs kingpin) solid front axle, the balljoints are loaded on the opposite side and you run the risk of a balljoint popping out and the knuckle falling apart.
So you have to cut the inner steering knuckles completely off the front axle, spin them upside down, redo the outer knuckles/hubs, and reweld the front inners on upside down...so now the balljoints are happy!
The steering arms, tierod ends, drag link, and pitman arm also have to be given custom treatment to work properly upside down.
I had to make a custom new transfer case mount/skidplate mount because its now in a completely different position now that its backwards. Driveshafts also had to be cut and rewelded to the correct length.
Its more of a "mid engine" than true rear engine because the engine is, for the most part, forward of the rear axle. A true rear engine would have been sketchy offroad as far as weight distribution when climbing vertical surfaces (Im not a get-dirty-at-50mph blasting through a mud bog guy...I like the technical trail riding and rock crawling that you do at 1mph)...run the risk of flipping over backwards. A mid engine thats set low in the frame (like mine is) gives a nice CG and weight distribution, even though the beetle itself looks tall and top heavy.
To offset the weight of the engine in the rear, I put the gas tank and battery up front. One of my friends tig'd the gas tank together for me and did an insane job on it. Most parts are from the junkyard. The steering column (note the column shifter still works, like factory!!) is that generic ubiquitous "GM column" that was used from ~1970 through the early 1990's.
The power steering box from the CJ was reused, and I used the hydroboost brake booster off of a 2002 Express van. The original CJ that the frame/axles came from was power steering, but manual brakes, oddly.
I originally had one power steering line and one return running from the rear engine to the front box and booster. BUT. The power steering box has a much higher fluid return rate and pressure than the hydroboost brake booster, so the steering return fluid would backfeed into the brake booster. The result was brakes that would self apply!! Like, you start the engine, and as soon as it gets power steering pressure, you can see the brake pedal slowly go to the floor...and the brakes would be 'stuck' on. If you turned the steering wheel (and therefore demanded pump pressure rather than bypass), the brake pedal would come up and the brakes would release. Stop turning the wheel and the brakes would apply again. The solution was to run two separate return lines back to the pump reservoir.
It has disc brakes in the front and drums in the rear, and with a hydraulic brake booster that has the power to stop a 1 ton GM truck/van, it literally stops the little lightweight beetle on a dime!!
The floor and firewall were all custom formed from flat sheets of steel that I got at the local steel yard. The forward section of the floor is actually bulletproof lexan that we "acquired" from the school when they were redoing the hockey rink! So now I can see the roclks and terrain that im driving over when im offroad.
The radiator is mounted in the back because theres lots of room behind the engine and no room up front (with the battery, gas tank, brake booster, etc in the way). Also, if I had the radiator in the front Id have to cut some ugly holes or fins in the beetle front hood to allow airflow in there. I used a ford taurus electric fan mounted on the radiator in the rear and it has ZERO trouble keeping the engine cool, even on low speed. All the offroad guys run ford taurus fans because years ago, one person found that they were a dime a dozen at the junk yard, and they move a ridiculous amount of air...perfect!
Also, having 12 feet of cooling lines (If I had the radiator in the front) worries me, id hate to get a leak. Everything else, windshield wipers, tail lights, horn, headlights, doors, windows, dash is all standard Beetle stuff.
I made basically the whole wiring harness, fusebox, etc myself, with weatherpack connectors and everything so I can take the harness out without hacking it up if I ever need to in the future.
The steering wheel is off a simplicity lawn tractor.
The seats are some ricer racing seats that I got for 50 bucks (for both!) on craigs list. They are perfect, no tears, not an obnoxious color, and very comfy! Seatbelts are 4/5 point Simpson harnesses. I got them cheap because the SFI certification on them expired 3 years ago, but Im really not worried about it...
I need to enclose the engine/make a better rear firewall, and the cage is only marginal in terms of strength right now, so long term I would like to do those things. But other than that its pretty much done and ready for the trail... :joker:
Ben
i've said it before... you have wayyy to much time on your hands!!! i thought i was bad with some of my little projects and all my spare time looks sweet ben next time i'm up your way i gotta see this thing!
looks sweet ben next time i'm up your way i gotta see this thing!
i've said it before... you have wayyy to much time on your hands!!! i thought i was bad with some of my little projects and all my spare time
Ben doesnt sleep much. His mind is always working.
Ben, thats pretty cool. Too bad there wasnt a way for you to run an old Toronado TH400 transaxle and still use 4wd. There arent any axles that woul dfit this app without having to turn them upside down? Too bad it wasnt as simple as just using front on rear, rear on front, eh?