Torque converter selection

[oscyjack]

I'm curious as to why you think the 1078 is only good til 10kish in tow.

I'm on week 3 on Evans build and the 1078 and have towed 3 times. 6k loaded car trailer twice and a twin skid steer trailer just under 15k. I am more than impressed with the 1078s behavior and lockup. I told him I'd be towing up to and slightly beyond capacities and he said the 1078 was perfect. Im running a stock turbo with plans for a Danville 68 later this year

I had mine done by Evan but he said tons of kits going out the door. HSP would be a good place to visit for it

 

[malibu795]

On a regular basis.. while noone has done a video similar to mine.. from what everyone describes it's some ~400 RPM loser too. Along with no substantial RPM drop on the 1 -2 shift under load.
I have videos of the stock TC holding the engine at ~2500 rpm half way through 4th before lock up while towing
1-2 shift is a ~40% gear ratio reduction

 

[Evan@InglewoodTrans]

I have several customers that tow well over 10,000 pounds on a daily basis that absolutely love the 78 and remind often how well it's working. One has over 60,000 on it already of daily heavy towing. There should be new option fairly soon I'm testing for the cost concious heavy towing crowd.

 

[SickLL7Crenshaw]

There should be new option fairly soon I'm testing for the cost concious heavy towing crowd.

:thumb: I'll take one for my LMM tow pig when you release it.

 

[malibu795]

I have several customers that tow well over 10,000 pounds on a daily basis that absolutely love the 78 and remind often how well it's working. One has over 60,000 on it already of daily heavy towing. There should be new option fairly soon I'm testing for the cost concious heavy towing crowd.

A big single version of the transtar A7XL would be nice.. one can currently get it for $300.00 .. most billet single disc are ~600-700 range

Though I all honesty swapping the lose OEM TC out for just about anything tighter is going to make for a happy owner for vast majority.

Main reason why I took videos of how the TC acted is due to 90% of the people in the TC business use generalities when describing it's targeted behavior.

~$1300 TC plus swap labor isn't cheap to change on a whim for most people.

What woke me up was, when I swapped a the 6.5td out for a LBZ and used the stock 1600 stall TC that was OEM in the 99 3500HD from the factory.

Avg 12k tandem steel 40' trailer is ~9-10,000lbs empty.

 

[Chevy1925]

On a regular basis.. while noone has done a video similar to mine.. from what everyone describes it's some ~400 RPM loser too. Along with no substantial RPM drop on the 1 -2 shift under load.
I have videos of the stock TC holding the engine at ~2500 rpm half way through 4th before lock up while towing
1-2 shift is a ~40% gear ratio reduction

not everyone is as mindful of the coupling in a converter when towing lol.

the other issue with the converter you have now is its not a billet stator.


the heavier you are, the better fluid coupling needs to be. that said, the converters out there that are highly recommended for this site will work well in still getting your rig to move down the road quickly when loaded down. towing heavy day in and day out is when you start getting picky

 

[oscyjack]

Malibu I'll try to grab a video next time I hook up, what do you want filmed?

No doubt my experience and knowledge level with the Allison is lower than many of yours; however I can tell you the truck tows definitively better now than it did stock. Evan said my stock clutches looked good so I wasn't towing with a damaged tranny before, as a result I think my impression and comparison of the 1078's towing performance is fair

 

[clrussell]

I tow with a goerund "g" meow do I love it. Have a customer with a 68r that uses this converter too. He grosses 40k weekly

 

[malibu795]

Malibu I'll try to grab a video next time I hook up, what do you want filmed?

No doubt my experience and knowledge level with the Allison is lower than many of yours; however I can tell you the truck tows definitively better now than it did stock. Evan said my stock clutches looked good so I wasn't towing with a damaged tranny before, as a result I think my impression and comparison of the 1078's towing performance is fair

Basic characteristics while towing an 18,000lb Trailer. Mainly how it acts unlocked. While I did it with 4.56 gears and 32" tires.. I saw a 150 rpm drop in coupling between 3.73/4.56 due to less load on the TC

 

[oscyjack]

I'd have to load the skid trailer with extra weight to hit that weight, which I can do but ormal weight is a shade under 15k, that good enough for you?

I'll keep note of rpm drop and try to get a vid next time I'm towing. I have stock 3.73s on 33's. 4th gear locked going up a grade was the first time I thought to myself "now this is how a truck should tow".

You mentioned lockup coming later. When I'm loaded I'm in T/H so I'm locked before then. Are you wanting this video/observation not in tow/haul?

 

[malibu795]

not everyone is as mindful of the coupling in a converter when towing lol.

the other issue with the converter you have now is its not a billet stator.


the heavier you are, the better fluid coupling needs to be. that said, the converters out there that are highly recommended for this site will work well in still getting your rig to move down the road quickly when loaded down. towing heavy day in and day out is when you start getting picky

Billet stator and and billet TCC plate are only thing missing basically on this setup..

Only thing I wish I did was same videos with stock TC.
Not only see the difference but how much slower the truck was of the line with stock TC.

For guys running 90/10 DD/towing it will be good. for guys like me that are 10/90 it's better than Stock.. I wouldn't be completely pleased with it especially in stop n go traffic and starting out on steep hills.

I get a chirp on the 1-2 shift at wot with a 3400rpm shift point. With an empty GN Trailer hooked up.. got video of it lol.. only running 400 HP..

15k Trailer and 4-500 HP with a 1078... I have no doubt it will do it. IDK if it's tight enough to lock up in 2nd or is it going to blow through it

 

[oscyjack]

It's locked in 2nd every time thus far. Even with generous throttle fwiw. Probably closer to the 500 end of power

 

[malibu795]

I'd have to load the skid trailer with extra weight to hit that weight, which I can do but ormal weight is a shade under 15k, that good enough for you?

I'll keep note of rpm drop and try to get a vid next time I'm towing. I have stock 3.73s on 33's. 4th gear locked going up a grade was the first time I thought to myself "now this is how a truck should tow".

You mentioned lockup coming later. When I'm loaded I'm in T/H so I'm locked before then. Are you wanting this video/observation not in tow/haul?

That would work, it would definitely give a person general idea of what to expect. 14-15k trailer is decent load and avg 5'ver weight as well..

The TCM has a slip table.. if engine RPM is ~750 RPM or higher than the tans input shaft it will not allow lockup, even though TCM commands TCC lockup shortly after it shifts into 2nd.

This is stock TC 4.56 and 28,000lb trailer. TCC didn't lock till 4th
https://youtu.be/thdUZDh0bgo
And AX7L/4.56 18,000lb trail
https://youtu.be/ogR9BI2lwrg

Big difference between the two..
, the extra 10,000lbs of trailer adds about 100-150rpm to the stall/coupling

 

[bmc1025]

I have the AX7 in my 03 and put Evans kit and his converter in a friends 05 both trucks are around 400rwhp tuned by me. They are very similar in the way they always feel coupled but the Limitless converter will flash about 150-200rpm higher under sudden throttle inputs. Keep in mind his truck has 32" tires and mine are around 30" not to mention VGT vs non. I know these are kind of apples to oranges comparisons but the overall feel of the trucks are similar when taking off with a load or dropping the hammer and passing. Now my stock LBZ on the other hand with around 400hp feels very unresponsive and blows through the converter way to easy.

I have been going back and fourth on what converter I am going to put in the LBZ and still can't make up my mind. If i do the AX7 it will just be a budget build trans with pressure mods and GPZs. If I put Evans converter in it will get his full kit. It really all boils down to how much money I want to spend on a 10+ year old work truck.

Evans kit was a breeze to install even though mine had no instructions and this was the first time I had an Allison apart. All the clutch modules were already stacked and ready to drop in. Selective plates were included for the packs that may need them, all needed bearings, bushings and seals were included as well.

 

[oscyjack]

Roger I should report back within 2 weeks or so

 

[malibu795]

I have the AX7 in my 03 and put Evans kit and his converter in a friends 05 both trucks are around 400rwhp tuned by me. They are very similar in the way they always feel coupled but the Limitless converter will flash about 150-200rpm higher under sudden throttle inputs. Keep in mind his truck has 32" tires and mine are around 30" not to mention VGT vs non. I know these are kind of apples to oranges comparisons but the overall feel of the trucks are similar when taking off with a load or dropping the hammer and passing. Now my stock LBZ on the other hand with around 400hp feels very unresponsive and blows through the converter way to easy.

I have been going back and fourth on what converter I am going to put in the LBZ and still can't make up my mind. If i do the AX7 it will just be a budget build trans with pressure mods and GPZs. If I put Evans converter in it will get his full kit. It really all boils down to how much money I want to spend on a 10+ year old work truck.

Evans kit was a breeze to install even though mine had no instructions and this was the first time I had an Allison apart. All the clutch modules were already stacked and ready to drop in. Selective plates were included for the packs that may need them, all needed bearings, bushings and seals were included as well.

With non VGT mine grabs about 1700-1800rpm regardless what's behind it or throttle input off the line as you can see in the video

 

[malibu795]

Roger I should report back within 2 weeks or so

:thumb:

 

[Chevy1925]

Billet stator and and billet TCC plate are only thing missing basically on this setup..

Only thing I wish I did was same videos with stock TC.
Not only see the difference but how much slower the truck was of the line with stock TC.

For guys running 90/10 DD/towing it will be good. for guys like me that are 10/90 it's better than Stock.. I wouldn't be completely pleased with it especially in stop n go traffic and starting out on steep hills.

I get a chirp on the 1-2 shift at wot with a 3400rpm shift point. With an empty GN Trailer hooked up.. got video of it lol.. only running 400 HP..

15k Trailer and 4-500 HP with a 1078... I have no doubt it will do it. IDK if it's tight enough to lock up in 2nd or is it going to blow through it

wanna watch me blow the tires off with that same weight? :roflmao: :hug:

im a huge fan of the ML-G. its like the heavy duty version of what you run. might even couple better being that im pushing more power. i have not let the truck eat with the new trailer on the back. mainly cause i dont want to find the next weak link and the 5th hitch is at max capacity with the trailer loaded on it and a full load in there. i dont need that coming apart in the bed.

id be very curious where Evans converter falls. alot of people compare it to the ML-R in how well it works

 

[malibu795]

I bet I could blow mine off too if I had a ~1000hp truck with supporting mods
Build your own
http://products.safholland.us/sites...landlightcommercial/pages/holland fw0001.aspx

 

[Chevy1925]

I bet I could blow mine off too if I had a ~1000hp truck with supporting mods
Build your own
http://products.safholland.us/sites...landlightcommercial/pages/holland fw0001.aspx

the old precision ML wouldnt do it, id just blow through the converter. only time i could get it to do it was with a lighter load like just my samurai/old flat bed on the back. what i mean is even with a load and that power, it still gets the power to the ground like yours is. wasnt trying to talk down on yours . more power doesnt mean it will get to the ground/tires. specially with the loads we are talking about. whole new category there.

im gunna look at doing an air ride hitch.